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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Guru by Bill Montana (72 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Caveman wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
If you are using trickery in a non-entertainment scenario you are a charlatan -plain and simple.


Hasn't religion been a source of entertainment for centuries?


No. Unless you wish to abuse the English language. Any religious person/psychic/guru using magic tricks to fool his followers is a charlatan. Or take your choice from the dictionary synonyms:

CHARLATAN
ˈʃɑːlət(ə)n
noun

a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill.

synonyms: con-artist, quack, mountebank, sham, fraud, fake, humbug, impostor, pretender, masquerader, hoodwinker, hoaxer, cheat, deceiver, dissembler, double-dealer, double-crosser, trickster, confidence trickster, cheater, swindler, fraudster, racketeer; rogue, villain, scoundrel
Stunninger
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Caveman wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
If you are using trickery in a non-entertainment scenario you are a charlatan -plain and simple.


Hasn't religion been a source of entertainment for centuries?


No. Unless you wish to abuse the English language. Any religious person/psychic/guru using magic tricks to fool his followers is a charlatan. Or take your choice from the dictionary synonyms:

CHARLATAN
ˈʃɑːlət(ə)n
noun

a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill.

synonyms: con-artist, quack, mountebank, sham, fraud, fake, humbug, impostor, pretender, masquerader, hoodwinker, hoaxer, cheat, deceiver, dissembler, double-dealer, double-crosser, trickster, confidence trickster, cheater, swindler, fraudster, racketeer; rogue, villain, scoundrel


+ 1
The Elvis Peek, Micro Billet Q&A, Instant Psychic Readings or Just for the Hull of It (Q&A 1-2-3 + Hull of a Peek) are sold separately and are available for $20 each. To order send Paypal for $20 to: mindreaderfxfx@gmail.com and specify which title you are ordering.

Videos are streaming only and cannot be downloaded.

Reviews can be found by doing a cafe search
Tony Iacoviello
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Eternal Order
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Lots of comments and opinions as well as name calling.

Question, who outside of Robert has actually seen the video?
Caveman
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Like I said, religion is full of tricksters, but many of those tricksters double as entertainers. And, sometimes the line is blurred.
Tony Iacoviello
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
...
CHARLATAN
ˈʃɑːlət(ə)n
noun

a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill.

synonyms: con-artist, quack, mountebank, sham, fraud, fake, humbug, impostor, pretender, masquerader, hoodwinker, hoaxer, cheat, deceiver, dissembler, double-dealer, double-crosser, trickster, confidence trickster, cheater, swindler, fraudster, racketeer; rogue, villain, scoundrel


So, would the people posting in this thread about Bill and his video without having seen it fit this definition? As I read it, yes.

Thank you, Martin, for clearing this up.

I find it in poor taste to trash a person and a product, unseen, based on opinion and personal bias.

And yes, you are trashing him.

Sure, points here may be right in some contexts, but without having see it, that is just hearsay. And hearsay and heresy are only a letter apart. Smile

Sure, I've had issues with products and posted comments, but I owned the products...

Tony Iacoviello
Clifford the Red
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A few people yammering here who obviously know nothing about mentalism or metaphysical work, let alone anything about Bill’s work. And some pushing the JREF nonsense, talk about a fraud and a charlatan!

Tony and Robert are very well known and respected and I know they are extremely well-versed, and Bill has more knowledge and experience than all of you others combined. Go back to card tricks and leave the real work to the adults.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
Gumar Oz DuBar
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Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Last Laugh wrote:
I have been closely involved with the metaphysical scene for most of my life, albeit not as a mentalist.


This statement, plus your username, equals me right now. C'mon, we both know this isn't true.

Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Last Laugh wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Gumar Oz DuBar wrote:
I don't use trickery, because I don't need to, but I never said that I don't, so even though that's true, don't put words in my mouth. Also, avoid looking a fool and actually read what I write when addressing me to avoid confusion.


Um.... Avoiding confusion is impossible with this sentence.


Perhaps this is true for someone that doesn't understand the English language, or at the very least, declines to take time to read what has actually been written.

I'll break it down into bite-sized child pieces for you:

- In my original statement, I said that what I do doesn't require trickery. This statement is different than saying that one doesn't use trickery. "Require" means "has to" and is another way of saying "necessary". [Hopefully you haven't gotten lost yet.]

- You said that I made the statement that I don't use trickery, when in fact, I did not say that. I said, "what I do doesn't require trickery", which as I just explained above, is different from making the statement that I don't use trickery, because of... you know ...the meaning and definitions of words. You misread or assumed, and one should avoid doing both, especially the latter. [Hopefully you're still with me and something shiny hasn't distracted you.]

- I then addressed whether or not I used trickery, because if I didn't address it, I knew that that's the next thing I'd be asked. So I preempted you, and basically said that I don't use trickery because I don't need to, but made clear that what you claimed I stated was not stated by me (and because of this, you were putting words in my mouth). [This can't be too hard to understand can it? You said that I made a specific statement, but in reality, I didn't. Then I quoted my statement, and it was different from what you said I had stated... meaning not the same thing.]

- I then admonished you for putting words in my mouth, and not reading properly, or simply making things up, and then told you to reread where you claimed I said something that I just told you I didn't and gave quotes to back up my proof. [Simple for any that speak English fluently, can read it, and can follow a sentence.]


Don't know why you're interested in me though.


This thread is about Bill Montana's wonderful DVD/video product, Guru.


Which I can't recommend enough to anyone that wants a solid crash-course in the metaphysical markets.

The best thing about Bill's work is that it is so protean in nature. It's so versatile and can be used in many different ways.

For instance, I use his "Grow Larger" for all types of different things, including an intention exercise, for one-on-one sessions, in group work (which is, I believe the way he teaches it), and for much more. That's just one of the tools taught on here and it's worth the price for that alone. Although because most, if not all, all of his techniques, tools, and work can be used for more than one thing, most of the pieces taught on here are worth the price just for themselves. Sounds a bit like hyping, but it's the truth. This DVD really is a crash-course on work in the metaphysical market, and it's filled with valuable knowledge and information to start you off on this path, or to make what you're doing even better, allowing you to be more successful professionally.

Real, practical, multi-purpose techniques that can be used for different things, and that is valuable and rare in itself when it comes to the popular mentalism techniques of today.


Anyone who doesn't actually own, know, and understand Bill's work, probably shouldn't comment on it. Seeing as they don't know what they're speaking about.
I write and edit text.
FocusYourMAYND
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Dad would suspect this entire debate was a ruse to increase sales. Well played! FYM
WitchDocChris
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I've got a lot of Bill's material. I can honestly say I've used stuff from Bill in every performance, even casual ones, in the past three years.

I don't have Guru as I am currently focusing on paying off bills rather than purchasing new material, but I am confident that any performer who has the confidence to use his methods and techniques will find value in it.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Peter_turner
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I’m going to pick this up, I saw the trailer and other than the plastic bending (I don’t like any type of pk bending type material) it looks interesting - I love the fact Bill calls himself a guru, I’m a prophet - it’s all relative.

I very rarely get time to watch anything these days but I’m going to make time for it.

Pete x
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
...
CHARLATAN
ˈʃɑːlət(ə)n
noun

a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill.

synonyms: con-artist, quack, mountebank, sham, fraud, fake, humbug, impostor, pretender, masquerader, hoodwinker, hoaxer, cheat, deceiver, dissembler, double-dealer, double-crosser, trickster, confidence trickster, cheater, swindler, fraudster, racketeer; rogue, villain, scoundrel


So, would the people posting in this thread about Bill and his video without having seen it fit this definition? As I read it, yes.

Thank you, Martin, for clearing this up.

I find it in poor taste to trash a person and a product, unseen, based on opinion and personal bias.

And yes, you are trashing him.

Sure, points here may be right in some contexts, but without having see it, that is just hearsay. And hearsay and heresy are only a letter apart. Smile

Sure, I've had issues with products and posted comments, but I owned the products...

Tony Iacoviello


If someone released a DVD called "How To Be A Real Pick-pocket" I would post that they were utterly unethical, and I wouldn't need to have paid the exorbitant price of the DVD to make that post.
Stunninger
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:

If someone released a DVD called "How To Be A Real Pick-pocket" I would post that they were utterly unethical, and I wouldn't need to have paid the exorbitant price of the DVD to make that post.


Well said, Martin.

People are free to discuss their perspectives on concepts relating to the subject or topic of a product.
The Elvis Peek, Micro Billet Q&A, Instant Psychic Readings or Just for the Hull of It (Q&A 1-2-3 + Hull of a Peek) are sold separately and are available for $20 each. To order send Paypal for $20 to: mindreaderfxfx@gmail.com and specify which title you are ordering.

Videos are streaming only and cannot be downloaded.

Reviews can be found by doing a cafe search
Stunninger
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, FocusYourMAYND wrote:
Dad would suspect this entire debate was a ruse to increase sales. Well played! FYM


JR may be right...
The Elvis Peek, Micro Billet Q&A, Instant Psychic Readings or Just for the Hull of It (Q&A 1-2-3 + Hull of a Peek) are sold separately and are available for $20 each. To order send Paypal for $20 to: mindreaderfxfx@gmail.com and specify which title you are ordering.

Videos are streaming only and cannot be downloaded.

Reviews can be found by doing a cafe search
Caveman
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Sorry to have derailed the thread in any way guys, the subject of Gurus has always been a deep source of fascination for me.

Mr Montanas work looks very intriguing, and it certainly is a catchy title.
Tony Iacoviello
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
...
CHARLATAN
ˈʃɑːlət(ə)n
noun

a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill.

synonyms: con-artist, quack, mountebank, sham, fraud, fake, humbug, impostor, pretender, masquerader, hoodwinker, hoaxer, cheat, deceiver, dissembler, double-dealer, double-crosser, trickster, confidence trickster, cheater, swindler, fraudster, racketeer; rogue, villain, scoundrel


So, would the people posting in this thread about Bill and his video without having seen it fit this definition? As I read it, yes.

Thank you, Martin, for clearing this up.

I find it in poor taste to trash a person and a product, unseen, based on opinion and personal bias.

And yes, you are trashing him.

Sure, points here may be right in some contexts, but without having see it, that is just hearsay. And hearsay and heresy are only a letter apart. Smile

Sure, I've had issues with products and posted comments, but I owned the products...

Tony Iacoviello


If someone released a DVD called "How To Be A Real Pick-pocket" I would post that they were utterly unethical, and I wouldn't need to have paid the exorbitant price of the DVD to make that post.


That isn't what he named it, is it? He called it "Guru". Yes, he says it shows you how to take your mentalism to the metaphysical market. that can mean a variety of things.

Until you watched it you would be speaking out of your "butt". Unless, of course you are omnipotent, is that what you are claiming?

No wonder people stay away from this place, people post from ignorance and pass it off a gospel.

Had you purchased the product and posted this as your opinion, I'd say, "Fine, it is what you thought of the material, you bought it, it is your right."

But that isn't what is going on here, is it? Nope, you are insulting Bill and demeaning his product without ever seeing it. That is ignorance. I never took you as that type of person before. Live and learn, I guess.

Question, where were you all when someone else released a product called "Charlatan"? I didn't see any of this farting going on there.

This thread is full of more than just charlatans. Smile

Tony Iacoviello
Martin Pulman
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The blurb for Mr Montana's Penguin lecture openly states that he has worked as "a charlatan faith healer and professional psychic". Presumably he signed off on that biog, so I can't see that he could offence at me repeating it.

In any event, I was supporting Last Laugh's opinion on the use of trickery in metaphysical work in general rather than this DVD in particular.
Tony Iacoviello
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
...

In any event, I was supporting Last Laugh's opinion on the use of trickery in metaphysical work in general rather than this DVD in particular.


If that is the case, why post it in a thread about this product???
Martin Pulman
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Because I was replying to a post in this thread.
Tony Iacoviello
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Because I was replying to a post in this thread.


So you continued off topic diatribe that is pointed at demeaning Bill and his video.

Good thing Matthew didn't jump off a bridge, we may have lost you both. Smile
Martin Pulman
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Discussing charlatans and the ethical use of trickery on a thread about a DVD devoted to becoming a "Guru" -released by someone who has worked as a "charlatan faith healer"- is not off-topic. It is 100% on topic.
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