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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Guru by Bill Montana (72 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tony Iacoviello
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Discussing charlatans and the ethical use of trickery on a thread about a DVD devoted to becoming a "Guru" -released by someone who has worked as a "charlatan faith healer"- is not off-topic. It is 100% on topic.


Not in this section of the Café, this is for product discussions not off topic banter. Smile

This isn't Penny.
Clifford the Red
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No one cares about all this fake holier than thou crap 💩. Having an “opinion” on a product and person and genre you know nothing about is simply more Café trolling by little men trying to insert themselves in conversations they painfully obviously know nothing about. I have no patience for this garbage.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
Martin Pulman
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Maybe some followers of this particular "Guru" can enter his competition:

"I will be running a contest soon for a copy of Guru. But in the meantime anyone who rips on Mindpro, Last laugh or any of those other bozo's 9that's another word for clown) in the most creative way with the best comment without getting the thread taken down or kicked off the Café will win a special free audio program of choice from those that I have done.

Now should one expose martin pullman as the fake he is with supporting facts that must be check able will win a audio program as well a 57 dollar value and up. This additional exposure can have more than one winner Limit 5. But the exposure must be unique to each person." -Bill Montana

Classy stuff! Just what I would expect from someone teacher others to be Gurus. I'm hurt I'm only worth $57 dollars though! And it's 'Pulman', not "Pullman'. I'd hate to think some poor chap called Martin Pullman would be getting his name besmirched all over the internet!
Tony Iacoviello
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I am not ripping on Mindpro, he said exactly what needed to be said, albeit in another thread:

Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
A prime example of exactly what I was referring to of someone passing of uninformed opinion to others as fact. Ignorance and flaming is not intelligence.


That describes this thread.
IAIN
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england
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Best thread ever, it's got it all...
Last Laugh
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Caveman wrote:

What do you guys think of Sai Baba? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJYgXXvRSec



I grew up around a number of Sai Baba devotees. They were mostly all very good folks, but there were some stories about his.... proclivities for young men/boys. People like to think that everything is part of the teaching so they are eager to ignore disturbing stories.

When I was younger I very much believed that his manifestations, etc, were real. I spent time in India as well, and I was actively looking for others who had 'Siddhis'. None of the genuine spiritual teachers I met did siddhis and in fact every single one that I asked said something along the lines of 'Siddhis are a distraction and take people in the wrong direction'.

Now, with an interest in magic and sleight of hand, when I finally saw Sai Baba's 'manifestations' I was sorely disappointed because his sleight of hand isn't even good. It's obvious trickery. His vibbhuti trick is decent, I'll say, but there's no secret to how he does it. I'll say this too - I was able to examine a large quantity of this ash from the 70s and then another batch from the 90s and its a completely different 'scent'. He mush have changed incense formulas....

But the worse part is the abuse. There are at the very least dozens of boys and young men (probably more) that have come forward telling a very similar story of sexual abuse. That is not the activity of a real guru.

Now it's true that there are plenty of sadhus and gurus that will use occasional trickery BUT they are of lesser quality. The best teachers only teach, they don't use anything. The teachings don't need any help because the truth is the purest magic.




And GUMAR, listen. The level of sneering condescension that comes from your posts makes me concerned for your 'students'. You made ambiguous statements and then insulted me for not wasting my time examine the minutia of your posts. Instead of constantly referring back to your own previous words, you COULD just explain yourself....

And I don't know what you meant by 'we both know this isn't true' but you don't know me, and it IS true that I have spent most of my life around metaphysical circles. Further, for more than half of my life, I have performed regularly as a musician in spiritual circles. I used to travel with a very well known spiritual teacher to provide music for retreats. This is all easily verifiable, but I won't waste my time since you 'know it isn't true'.

You basically prove my point for me. Your attitude proves to me that there is no way you could possibly care about the spiritual growth of your 'students' and you seem exactly like the kind of person who sees them instead as marks...
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IAIN
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england
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*mic drop*
tomd
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Last Laugh wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Caveman wrote:

What do you guys think of Sai Baba? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJYgXXvRSec



I grew up around a number of Sai Baba devotees. They were mostly all very good folks, but there were some stories about his.... proclivities for young men/boys. People like to think that everything is part of the teaching so they are eager to ignore disturbing stories.

When I was younger I very much believed that his manifestations, etc, were real. I spent time in India as well, and I was actively looking for others who had 'Siddhis'. None of the genuine spiritual teachers I met did siddhis and in fact every single one that I asked said something along the lines of 'Siddhis are a distraction and take people in the wrong direction'.

Now, with an interest in magic and sleight of hand, when I finally saw Sai Baba's 'manifestations' I was sorely disappointed because his sleight of hand isn't even good. It's obvious trickery. His vibbhuti trick is decent, I'll say, but there's no secret to how he does it. I'll say this too - I was able to examine a large quantity of this ash from the 70s and then another batch from the 90s and its a completely different 'scent'. He mush have changed incense formulas....

But the worse part is the abuse. There are at the very least dozens of boys and young men (probably more) that have come forward telling a very similar story of sexual abuse. That is not the activity of a real guru.

Now it's true that there are plenty of sadhus and gurus that will use occasional trickery BUT they are of lesser quality. The best teachers only teach, they don't use anything. The teachings don't need any help because the truth is the purest magic.




And GUMAR, listen. The level of sneering condescension that comes from your posts makes me concerned for your 'students'. You made ambiguous statements and then insulted me for not wasting my time examine the minutia of your posts. Instead of constantly referring back to your own previous words, you COULD just explain yourself....

And I don't know what you meant by 'we both know this isn't true' but you don't know me, and it IS true that I have spent most of my life around metaphysical circles. Further, for more than half of my life, I have performed regularly as a musician in spiritual circles. I used to travel with a very well known spiritual teacher to provide music for retreats. This is all easily verifiable, but I won't waste my time since you 'know it isn't true'.

You basically prove my point for me. Your attitude proves to me that there is no way you could possibly care about the spiritual growth of your 'students' and you seem exactly like the kind of person who sees them instead as marks...


https://youtu.be/1esrEb9p0Wc
Stunninger
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Discussing charlatans and the ethical use of trickery on a thread about a DVD devoted to becoming a "Guru" -released by someone who has worked as a "charlatan faith healer"- is not off-topic. It is 100% on topic.


Not in this section of the Café, this is for product discussions not off topic banter. Smile

This isn't Penny.


Not only is it entirely on topic, *any* speculation about a product is entirely allowable in this forum:

"That is the purpose of this forum. To provide a place where folks can discuss the latest rumors, read announcements and speculate about the obvious hyperbole surrounding many of the upcoming products that are released into magicdom. Will they be genuine miracles or mere rhetoric? We ponder the question... "

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=218
IAIN
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england
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Is this product anything to do with the band T-Rex?
Last Laugh
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Maybe some followers of this particular "Guru" can enter his competition:

"I will be running a contest soon for a copy of Guru. But in the meantime anyone who rips on Mindpro, Last laugh or any of those other bozo's (that's another word for clown) in the most creative way with the best comment without getting the thread taken down or kicked off the Café will win a special free audio program of choice from those that I have done.

Now should one expose martin pullman as the fake he is with supporting facts that must be check able will win a audio program as well a 57 dollar value and up. This additional exposure can have more than one winner Limit 5. But the exposure must be unique to each person." -Bill Montana



Wow, just noticed this.

What do you say Tony Eye, these are the good guys?

Bill is as cynical and condescending as they come.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast

Check out my products!

Direct from me (PW: cassidy)

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Philemon Vanderbeck
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Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
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FocusYourMAYND
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Since there are so many tangents being flung about, on the subject of Siddhis, when dad was studying to take the robe as a Theravada monk, he witnessed several from senior monks. He was told they were expected by-products or consequences of serious meditative absorption, and should he experience them, to disregard them, not take them seriously, consider them distractions from the path, and not get trapped by them. FYM
Last Laugh
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Exactly - and it should be thoroughly recognized that genuine siddhis are in no way the same thing as tricks, despite some lesser 'gurus' presenting tricks as siddhis. And just to clarify, me saying that Sai Baba's siddhis weren't real is not me saying that there on not real siddhis. There are.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast

Check out my products!

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Tony Iacoviello
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Stunninger wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Discussing charlatans and the ethical use of trickery on a thread about a DVD devoted to becoming a "Guru" -released by someone who has worked as a "charlatan faith healer"- is not off-topic. It is 100% on topic.


Not in this section of the Café, this is for product discussions not off topic banter. Smile

This isn't Penny.


Not only is it entirely on topic, *any* speculation about a product is entirely allowable in this forum:

"That is the purpose of this forum. To provide a place where folks can discuss the latest rumors, read announcements and speculate about the obvious hyperbole surrounding many of the upcoming products that are released into magicdom. Will they be genuine miracles or mere rhetoric? We ponder the question... "

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=218


Thank you for pointing that out. This shows that not only are the posts off topic, the thread is in the wrong area of the Café. This is not a "upcoming product" as you very keenly pointed out which is the purpose of this section. It is an existing product. I think the confusion stems from the name of this section, which contrary to the actual stated purpose implies new products not projected products.

It should be moved to Mentally Speaking and cleaned of the off topic post.

Thank you, Stunninger.
Tony Iacoviello
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Last Laugh wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Maybe some followers of this particular "Guru" can enter his competition:

"I will be running a contest soon for a copy of Guru. But in the meantime anyone who rips on Mindpro, Last laugh or any of those other bozo's (that's another word for clown) in the most creative way with the best comment without getting the thread taken down or kicked off the Café will win a special free audio program of choice from those that I have done.

Now should one expose martin pullman as the fake he is with supporting facts that must be check able will win a audio program as well a 57 dollar value and up. This additional exposure can have more than one winner Limit 5. But the exposure must be unique to each person." -Bill Montana



Wow, just noticed this.

What do you say Tony Eye, these are the good guys?

Bill is as cynical and condescending as they come.


And you guys have been trashing him and his work for 2 days without a one of you having looked at it.

Does that make you good guys?
Last Laugh
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I only speak for me.

I have expressed my opinions about where I think the moral line is when performing in a non-entertainment context. I have repeatedly said I wasn't commenting on the product. And I have not trashed anybody at all.

I made no definite statements about Bill or this product. I am willing to engage in actual discourse and have tried to respect the opinions of others.

And Bill is running a contest to see who can trash me and others.... but doesn't actually speak up for himself.

But if you see these things as even roughly equivalent, then I really don't know what to say.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast

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Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Last Laugh wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Maybe some followers of this particular "Guru" can enter his competition:

"I will be running a contest soon for a copy of Guru. But in the meantime anyone who rips on Mindpro, Last laugh or any of those other bozo's (that's another word for clown) in the most creative way with the best comment without getting the thread taken down or kicked off the Café will win a special free audio program of choice from those that I have done.

Now should one expose martin pullman as the fake he is with supporting facts that must be check able will win a audio program as well a 57 dollar value and up. This additional exposure can have more than one winner Limit 5. But the exposure must be unique to each person." -Bill Montana



Wow, just noticed this.

What do you say Tony Eye, these are the good guys?

Bill is as cynical and condescending as they come.


And you guys have been trashing him and his work for 2 days without a one of you having looked at it.

Does that make you good guys?

Yes, it does. There are a lot of young people on this web-site who perhaps have an interest in the performance art of mentalism. It is very important for them to know that not everyone here approves of using trickery to extract money from people under false pretences.

When you find yourself continuing to support someone who not only proudly talks about his days as a fake faith healer, but who also runs online competitions to start flaming threads on Café members, you have to look in the mirror and ask where your moral compass is.

Regards,
Martin Pulman (one L).
Tony Iacoviello
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Last Laugh wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
Maybe some followers of this particular "Guru" can enter his competition:

"I will be running a contest soon for a copy of Guru. But in the meantime anyone who rips on Mindpro, Last laugh or any of those other bozo's (that's another word for clown) in the most creative way with the best comment without getting the thread taken down or kicked off the Café will win a special free audio program of choice from those that I have done.

Now should one expose martin pullman as the fake he is with supporting facts that must be check able will win a audio program as well a 57 dollar value and up. This additional exposure can have more than one winner Limit 5. But the exposure must be unique to each person." -Bill Montana



Wow, just noticed this.

What do you say Tony Eye, these are the good guys?

Bill is as cynical and condescending as they come.


And you guys have been trashing him and his work for 2 days without a one of you having looked at it.

Does that make you good guys?

Yes, it does. There are a lot of young people on this web-site who perhaps have an interest in the performance art of mentalism. It is very important for them to know that not everyone here approves of using trickery to extract money from people under false pretences.

When you find yourself continuing to support someone who not only proudly talks about his days as a fake faith healer with pride but also runs competitions to start flaming threads on Café members, you have to look in the mirror and ask where your moral compass is.

Regards,
Martin Pulman (one L).


I just looked in a mirror, and my reflection said I don't pass judgment on products I have not seen, I prefer not to speak out of ignorance and make assumptions. What does your mirror say?

Tony Iacoviello (2 L's)
Last Laugh
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At this point judgment is being passed on behavior of the creator.... that is indeed relevant.
My Mentalism Podcast:
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