The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Las Vegas Shooting (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16046 Posts

Profile of tommy
One of the hardest things to do in this kind of case is to give the enemy his due. Love thy enemy means giving the enemy his due to get into his head if you will, to get to know the enemy and so be able to better beat him. Paddock, to give him his due, was a very intelligent, careful crafty man, who planned this thing really well. He fooled everybody around him, for nobody appears have even suspected he was about do anything like this. Some have suggested he was no mug playing video poker but was probably money laundering and have said the good machines have only about 1% edge. Some have suggested he took advantage of perks he was given by the casino for being a wealthy good customer - suggesting he was allowed to use the service lift or back door. Well, who knows but it seems to me, quite possible.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Zauberman
View Profile
Loyal user
247 Posts

Profile of Zauberman
Good points Cagliostro. I admit I don't have a perfect solution. Like most, I wish the insanity would stop.
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Loyal user
261 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
For the purposes of conversation, examples need to distinguish between political acts of foreign terrorism, and pointless acts of domestic terrorism.
Foreign and domestic terrorism are fundamentally different things, and can't be mixed up and used as examples of "the same thing".

Sovereign nations can do as they please by definition. It's encouraged.
While one countries citizens may consider it imperative that every citizen have free and unfettered access to guns, another countries citizens may consider guns an incredibly dangerous weapon, and gladly restrict access on all fronts.

There is no "right" or "wrong".

The culture you're born into may leave you with incredibly strong beliefs on a given issue, your beliefs may feel "right" to you, and may equally feel very "wrong" to somebody from elsewhere.
That's fine, and indeed that's how the world should work.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2456 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
This is getting to be absolutely ridiculous.

It has now been almost 3 weeks since this mass murder shooting, the biggest in US history, has occurred, and yet the information has been contradictory, not clear and certainly not forth coming. The time line has changed three times and Jose Campos, the security guard had three interview scheduled and then mysteriously disappeared from sight and did not appear for those interviews. He evidently was sequestered by MGM corporation and not allowed to speak.

He then appeared for only one interview, a staged and phony interview on the Ellen DeGeneres show in which she portrayed him as a hero who saved many lives - an inaccurate portrayal for advertising purposes. Nothing against Campos in any way, but it appears he is being used as a stooge for MGM's public relations' use.

The Sheriff's department really has little to say, is oblique about the story and the FBI controls the evidence but had not made any substantive remarks on the case.

Three weeks after the most horrific mass shooting in US history and what do we really know...little or nothing.

Is it possible that much is being withheld to protect MGM corporation, because we know the liability lawsuits are going to hit, and maybe hit pretty hard?

I wonder if some heads will roll on this one? In my opinion, what has transpired to date as far as transparent disclosure as to what occured is disgraceful but then again, what do I know?
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2456 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Oct 17, 2017, Mr. Bones wrote:

Foreign and domestic terrorism are fundamentally different things, and can't be mixed up and used as examples of "the same thing".


I believe they can be equated. The motives my be different but the results are the same. People who wish to do harm get access to guns in countries with very strict gun laws, commit horrible acts using these guns and do so against an unprotected and unarmed populous.

The very wealthy and the elite in many countries have armed security to protect them (security with guns), while they go about devising strict gun laws...so what do the rest of us do?
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16046 Posts

Profile of tommy
In a world, where people want to be famous, in a time when spectacle is king, what do you expect?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
sennheiser
View Profile
New user
Germany
68 Posts

Profile of sennheiser
Hi to all,

if somebody wants to kill many people he will find a way.
so I don't think that restricting guns can solve that problem alone, but it can make it harder for the person to get to the guns.

if you take not only a look at terrorism/amok, then I would say there is a connection between guns and murders.
take any big city in the U.S. and compare it for example with germany (population over 80millions) and you will see that the murders are much more in the city even there are a lot less people.
I don't say guns are the only reason for that, but I'm sure its a big factor.

just my 2 cents.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20429 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
First of all if we take away the word "gun" and use the word "rights" we can remove the heat from the equation and talk about it more easily.

In America we are born with certain rights. These rights many Americans take very seriously no matter what they are.

It is also important to understand that our constitution is set up to protect us from the government. It not only sets up how it works, but it LIMITS it in scope. It tells the government what it is NOT allowed to do to us. So when suddenly someone wants to let them tell us what they CAN do to us, it is not good.

For example imagine a right you take for granted your entire life simply by being lucky enough to be living where you do. Now imagine how you would react if they just chose to take that away for any reason. Not going to go well is it? Same anywhere really. Not too hard to understand.

People who refer to it as a "gun culture" simply do not understand what it is really about. Our government is not designed to be the leviathan it has become. (As a matter of fact it is currently collapsing under it's own weight.) The reason we are The United States of America is simply that each State is supposed to be it's own government and the federal government has only 18 enumerated powers. We have gotten fairly far from this theory.

Our government has a way of creeping incrementalism. The Camel nose under the tent and such. Once the nose is under it isn't long before you have an entire Camel. I don't necessarily agree with what is put forth in this video, I don't necessarily disagree with it but it is an example of what I am talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhEX3rHssJI Forget the hot button content of health care and focus on the method being used to move an agenda forward. The content is not relevant only the process.

My point is "Americans and guns" is more about Americans than guns. I am not trying to argue with any position. If you have a position I respect it and that has nothing to do with my post. I am only pointing out that getting caught up in the "gun" part of "gun rights" and leaving out the "rights" part misses the entire point.

And short of checking every bag every person brings into every room how could one have stopped this guy?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2456 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
@Dannydoyle:

Very nicely laid out and explained.

Everyone understands rights, even those that live in highly regulated or socialistic societies. So, even people with little or no "rights" should understand this better.
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Loyal user
261 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
Every country is sovereign, and owns 100 percent of its own gun violence - so no explanation required.

To equate the Las Vegas shootings with a "rights" issue is a uniquely American conceit, and buy-in from the rest of the world is unlikely.

This is ultimately unimportant though, as American gun rights are only for Americans to concern themselves with, so the opinions of folks from other countries on the subject of American gun rights simply don't matter.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
sennheiser
View Profile
New user
Germany
68 Posts

Profile of sennheiser
I never said anything about the "rights", because my only statement was that you can make

Quote:
a connection between guns and murders.


I don't live in the U.S., so the "gun rights" are not my business.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2456 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Oct 26, 2017, sennheiser wrote:

I never said anything about the "rights", because my only statement was that you can make
...a connection between guns and murders.


Absolutely correct. You can also make a connection between knives, bombs, cars, trucks, poisons, clubs, axes and so on, and murders.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2456 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
As incredible as it may seem, according to the latest news reports that I have seen, Jesus Campos, the security guard and the only direct witness to the event, left the US very shortly after the shooting and went to Mexico. He then returned to the US and appeared on the Ellen DeGeneres show???

We don't know if he is licensed as a security guard or if such licensing is necessary, if he is legally in the US or what? The Sheriff's department will evidently not release any info to the news organizations on this. Yes, Campos was a victim, and the police have to protect victims. But he went on TV. We should be able to get some reports on him.

Further, the hard drive on the perpetrator's laptop is missing??? Yes you heard me right. It's missing????

And what happened to his girlfriend... and how about the second girl he apparently spend time with in Vegas?

Also, the perpetrator's bother was arrested yesterday in LA on porno charges.

And where is the FBI, the lead investigator on this case?

It has been four weeks since the worse mass shooting in US history and we know what?????

Even the Keystone cops were more transparent and efficient than this.

I'm flabbergasted...and disgusted at this point.

I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but what is going on here?
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2456 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Oct 25, 2017, Mr. Bones wrote:

...To equate the Las Vegas shootings with a "rights" issue is a uniquely American conceit, and buy-in from the rest of the world is unlikely...

This is ultimately unimportant though, as American gun rights are only for Americans to concern themselves with, so the opinions of folks from other countries on the subject of American gun rights simply don't matter.


Of course, the "mass shooting" was not equated with a "rights" issue as Bones very well knows. To equate the two is a stretch too far and a clumsy and inappropriate attempt at sarcasm, it that is what is occurring here.

However, Bones is right. What the rest of the world thinks doesn't matter at all - as they bask in their more "enlightened" perfection... Smile
Zauberman
View Profile
Loyal user
247 Posts

Profile of Zauberman
You know as a non-american, I find this thread fascinating. I think it gives an excellent look a certain cultural cross-section of a America.

I live beside an American base here in Europe and socialize with many american friends. It's is funny...about half are 100% for keeping their guns, the other half would definitely like to see gun controls. Both side are feverishly about defending their opinions to the point of getting hostile. Yet overall they are mostly really really nice and sane people. All of them. But bring up Trump, health-care or guns....boy are they divided.

As expected most of my artistic leaning freinds are for gun control whereas those whom lean toward the right (Trump?) insist they keep their guns. As expected after the Vegas shooting, guns were a hot topic amongst them in the bars.

America seems a very divided country.

One thing to note. While Sennheiser is not American....his opinion does matter. You see America matters to us and very much to the rest of the world. I was lucky enough to grow up on the American side of Germany. I have some relatives that grew up in the Soviet side....needless to say not as free.

The US is by far the most powerful country in the world and while a lot of people bash it....in reality most of us look up to America. Without the US I think Mr Putin would be no doubt at our doorsteps. America has given us the internet, I wear Levi jeans, drive an American car and we have a Starbucks now in our city where I get a Latte on weekends.

So the world watches in awe towards America...Trump, the Korean missles, and yes, the gun problem.

I really hope you all can work things out. Because a better America is a better world for everyone.

Thanx
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16046 Posts

Profile of tommy
One thing which is causing these nuts to go wild is drugs and the Americans take more than anybody. Drugs are the one thing which has changed the world we live more than anything in my lifetime. People are not merely on drug but combinations and then there are illegal drugs as well. Everybody knows how many guns the shooter had but few mention how many drugs he had.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Loyal user
261 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
Quote:
On Oct 28, 2017, tommy wrote:
....Everybody knows how many guns the shooter had but few mention how many drugs he had.


That's not at all accurate tommy.

The first thing done in cases like these is a full and complete toxicology test on the shooter.
They'd be able to identify any drug or substance in his system during his cowardly act, and likely any drug or substance he might have taken weeks earlier.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2456 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Oct 28, 2017, Mr. Bones wrote:

The first thing done in cases like these is a full and complete toxicology test on the shooter.


That being the case, there is no information, to the best of my knowledge, that has been forthcoming regarding this test.

I would think that would be something that should not be kept secret and divulging if the shooter had drugs in his possession or if drugs were in his system should not affect the investigation.

Once again, this investigation is not very transparent. I hope MGM corp is not hindering or causing information to be concealed or withheld in order to protect their potential liability.

However, I would not bet that was not happening.
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Loyal user
261 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
There are lots of historical investigations that prove conclusively that authorities essentially lied to the public during, and after an investigation.
Thus the concern some folks express.

I would seriously doubt that the LVPD or the FBI is involved in any sort of conspiracy to deceive the public on a case with this kind of profile, and with this level of loss of human life - but it's not impossible.

As Cag noted too, some aspects of the case do cause one to wonder if MGM properties aren't concerned more with protecting their brand than they are with assisting the investigation. That would no doubt land them in court, so there is a mechanism to deal with intentional obfuscation on the part of MGM.

Regardless, it's essentially impossible to influence massive bureaucracies like the FBI and the LVPD beyond noting one has concerns about transparency, forcing us all to wait for further information when they choose to release it.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16046 Posts

Profile of tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Las Vegas Shooting (6 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.14 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL