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Dannydoyle
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Well obviously nobody had ever been involved in law enforcement. The LAST thing they need is every CSI expert weighing in with an uninformed opinion just because they know every episode title.

Few things hurt investigation more than uninformed public opinion. Uproar for no reason or worse yet the wrong reason.

You are not trained. Wait for the findings.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Public records, according to reports, reveal Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock was prescribed the anti-anxiety drug Valium. He may have also been taking an antidepressant. Valium, which is the trade name for Diazepam, is an anti-anxiety medication that is one of a number of drugs classified as a benzodiazepine, nicknamed "Benzo." Others include Xanax, Klonopin and Ativan. These drugs are linked to violent behavior in some patients. Psychiatrist Peter Breggin, author of Medication Madness: The Role of Psychiatric Drugs in Cases of Violence, Suicide and Crime is one of a growing number of health professionals who say these drugs can, in some people, causes such severe personality changes that they can trigger the rage and even insanity. Drugs and guns, it seems to me, are becoming ever more powerful and so it becomes easier for nuts to go off their heads, murder more people, more quickly and so I can only see, on the whole, things getting worse.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
iamslow
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Ive been following this and what I don't understand is with the amount of cell phones and selfie addicts, I didn't see one video of someone getting shot, one drop of blood or even one bullet hole anywhere on the stage or the walls when I watched the videos of the clean up.... it seems odd with the amount of casualties and the injured... am I the only one that had this observation??
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
tommy
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I have not looked at the films or pictures because frankly, I am too sensitive. I mean, just hearing about kids being shot is gut-wrenching enough and I guess it has all been censored, out of respect for the loved ones.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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There are plenty of videos.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JasonEngland
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Cag,

As a fellow Las Vegan, I'm curious exactly what you think is being withheld from the media in this investigation?

The perpetrator was identified (and killed of course) within hours of the shooting. What's left isn't an "investigation" as much as it is a "picking up the pieces" operation.

The security guard left the country - so what? Every news agency on the planet wanted to talk to him. I'd have left town too. The next day he talks to the investigators and then has to go back to his life. A spot on Ellen pays a few bucks so he takes it. The end? Maybe. I don't know. But I also don't see any big mystery in his actions. He's undoubtedly listening to a personal lawyer as well as MGM corporate lawyers tell him what to do. Those 2 groups may not be telling him the same things of course. But I see no big mystery in his actions (or inactions).

The hard drive is missing from his laptop. So what? This is a common tactic amongst mass shooters (Adam Lanza in Newtown did it). If it went missing from a LVMPD evidence locker then I'd say you've got something. The guy removed it and threw it into the trash or a gutter a day or so before the shooting. Why? Who knows?! These people are crazy! But there's no big mystery here. Not knowing the answer isn't the same as having an impenetrable mystery on our hands.

The shooter may or may not have had more than one girlfriend. And?

MGM isn't saying anything - par for the course. What is there to say? Sorry? For what? For renting a room to a nut job that no one anticipated doing this? Could've happened to any casino on the strip. They did nothing wrong and will prevail in any lawsuits that aren't settled for good PR.

At the end of the day this case is over. The perpetrator is dead and we may never know if he had an "acute" motive beyond just being a nut case. Clearly there are still some things the FBI and Metro will want to work out, but there's no pressing need to rush any of this since getting the answer out in 8 weeks isn't any different than getting the answer out in 4 weeks.

Help me see the big holes in the current narrative that you seem to see.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2017, JasonEngland wrote:
Cag,

As a fellow Las Vegan, I'm curious exactly what you think is being withheld from the media in this investigation?

The perpetrator was identified (and killed of course) within hours of the shooting. What's left isn't an "investigation" as much as it is a "picking up the pieces" operation.

The security guard left the country - so what? Every news agency on the planet wanted to talk to him. I'd have left town too. The next day he talks to the investigators and then has to go back to his life. A spot on Ellen pays a few bucks so he takes it. The end? Maybe. I don't know. But I also don't see any big mystery in his actions. He's undoubtedly listening to a personal lawyer as well as MGM corporate lawyers tell him what to do. Those 2 groups may not be telling him the same things of course. But I see no big mystery in his actions (or inactions).

The hard drive is missing from his laptop. So what? This is a common tactic amongst mass shooters (Adam Lanza in Newtown did it). If it went missing from a LVMPD evidence locker then I'd say you've got something. The guy removed it and threw it into the trash or a gutter a day or so before the shooting. Why? Who knows?! These people are crazy! But there's no big mystery here. Not knowing the answer isn't the same as having an impenetrable mystery on our hands.

The shooter may or may not have had more than one girlfriend. And?

MGM isn't saying anything - par for the course. What is there to say? Sorry? For what? For renting a room to a nut job that no one anticipated doing this? Could've happened to any casino on the strip. They did nothing wrong and will prevail in any lawsuits that aren't settled for good PR.

At the end of the day this case is over. The perpetrator is dead and we may never know if he had an "acute" motive beyond just being a nut case. Clearly there are still some things the FBI and Metro will want to work out, but there's no pressing need to rush any of this since getting the answer out in 8 weeks isn't any different than getting the answer out in 4 weeks.

Help me see the big holes in the current narrative that you seem to see.

Jason


Thank you for summing up so well and eloquent. Exactly the point sir.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Thank you for proving my point about untainted people who think they know.

The problem is you have to "imagine" what would happen. Those who investigate KNOW and don't have time to educate every conspiracy theorist who binge watches Law and Order.

By the way a .22 will not easily penetrate a skull from 6 feet much less a hundred yards much less the distance we are talking about. He was 320 feet up and about 1,000 feet away. So you know anything about ballistics, trigonometry, or anything that would help you understand what happens to the projectile over that distance? My guess from your post is no.

Do you know what sort of load he was shooting? What velocity each round was moving at? Because to draw your conclusions that is necessary information to have. What kind of rounds did he fire?

Now think of a ricochet. From that distance and a ricochet it is easy to imagine a person surviving had trauma because the temporary cavity won't be so big. (Do you even know what that is? My guess is no so here is a description. https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/bal......istics.)

Being a ballistics expert is something you have to spend years in study, not watching TV and reading conspiracy theory news articles.

THIS is why investigations should be done by experts. I am not even close to one but at least having been a cop I understand the need to let the experts do their job and just wait for findings.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
AMcD
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@iamslow,


Hey buddy, Not sure that, as an European far from LV, I understand what's going on here. What's the problem exactly?

You doubt about the number of victims? You think there was more than one shooter? You believe there is something (but what?) hidden by the authorities?

About the last point, unfortunately, it seems that it's a long tradition in USA. When I see that it took 54 years to release a few files from Kennedy assassination...
Dannydoyle
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Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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I was about to ask that.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JasonEngland
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2017, Mr. Bones wrote:
For folks that don't get "shot in the head" every day - there is the distinct possibility that getting grazed across the back of the head might result in your telling whoever seemed interested that you'd been "shot in the head".



This is exactly what I thought as I was watching this. Did this guy take a round full on to the back of the head? Doubtful. Could he have caught a ricochet or a round that just nicked him through the skin on the back of his head? Absolutely.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
Cagliostro
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Those who are satisfied with the investigation to date on his horrific shooting and the amount of information that has been forthcoming, I am happy for them. However, many people are not. This is not meant to besmirch the authorities or their handling the case but rather to voice question.

We are all uninformed because we are not directly involved in the investigation, are not in possession of the evidence nor qualified to voice anything other than opinion. However, to voice opinion is the right of every American citizen. Many people died to ensure that right. It keeps our appointed public servants on their toes.

To say that the information has been somewhat confusing and sparse is certainly fair and reasonable for us to ask. After all, we are not subjects of a despot nor do we have to kneel to a king. We are free citizens who are allowed to question and hold government accountable. That doesn't mean we don't support law enforcement nor do we look to hinder their investigation. What it does mean is we can question ALL political servants, every last one of them, rightly or wrongly at any time. PERIOD!

Hopefully the FBI has something to add to this situation when their report eventually comes out. It might prove to be quite interesting, then again maybe not. We'll see.

Finally, it is very important to note that I have just received my honorary CSI card and mail-order investigator diploma and am therefore qualified and authorized to make cutting edge and perceptive comments on this case from time to time.

So...stay tuned...possibly the best is yet to come. Smile
tommy
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It seems a pretty open and shut case to me, except for the motive. I mean, this fellow did not seem to be a nut before the act, but quite contrary and the killing seems very cold cool and calculated. It seems strange to me as if there is something we do not know about him.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
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By the way, as tommy notes it, are there some news about the shooter motives? We don't have many information here. You don't kill 58 people without any reason, even when you are a wacko.
Dannydoyle
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It is odd to want to apply reason to anyone who would do such a thing. What reason would matter and why?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
AMcD
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Someone kills 58 and injures hundreds and you don't care about his motives? Maybe, knowing his reasons may help to prevent another massacre in a future, don't you think so?
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 31, 2017, AMcD wrote:
Someone kills 58 and injures hundreds and you don't care about his motives? Maybe, knowing his reasons may help to prevent another massacre in a future, don't you think so?


How so? I mean exactly how does knowing that he thought something outrageous help prevent another nut from being a nut?

No I don't think for a second knowing that John Hinkley Jr. wanted to impress Jodie Foster helps us stop the next guy at all.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
AMcD
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Because some doctors, psychiatrists, specialists, may rely on such experiences and background for instance.

Knowing how he proceeded may help to improve security schemes in hotels, casinos.

Knowing how he set up his massacre may help to rise some flags with some weapons dealers, etc.

Maybe he had mental problems? Maybe some expert could use his behaviour for preventing another possible case? It would help to improve tests in some hospitals?

You're wrong with you very particular case with Hinkley. In the last letter he wrote to Miss Foster, it's obvious he was about to do something bad.
Cagliostro
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AMcD raises some very good points in his post of Oct. 31, 2017 1:05pm above.

The more knowledge one can accumulate the better the possibility of understanding and perhaps preventing or reducing such occurrences in the future. It certainly can't hurt - it can't hurt to acquire knowledge and apply human reason to the situation and it just might help. The fact that it just might help is enough for me.

The security procedures of the hotel may have made a difference. I think when the full report is forthcoming, there will be some changes made in hotel security. Red flags to alert gun dealers may make a difference also, and may very well have done so in this instance. We don't know.

The human experience is a quest for knowledge and that quest has risen us up from the mud and taken us out of the caves. It has enabled us to travel to the moon and the depths of the oceans and presumable eventually maybe to the stars. To simply say he was a nut case and nothing could have been done and let it go at that irritates and insults every rational and human bone in my body. That may be the case but it needs to be substantiated if so.

No, none of these things mentioned by AMcD above may make a difference in this case - but then again, I would think they could or might have. To not pursue this line of preventive understanding and thought, and more, to me would be ignorant and absurd.

Hopefully the FBI and Metro will come out with a complete report in the near future and then we will more intelligently have something to discuss.

However, having heard Steve Wynn discuss the security measures he has implemented in his hotels leads me to conclude the security at the Mandalay Bay was somewhat lax and not responsive to the more dangerous modern world we live in. I would have to venture that this probably could have been almost impossible to accomplish had the killer been at one of Steve Wynn's Vegas hotels.
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