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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Mentalism Definitively Defined (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Max Hazy
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote:
But what's the hundred-year-old definition?


I'm not sure if there's one that would withstand that much time. If you go back 100 years back, the majority of the people doing what we consider mentalism today didn't do it for entertaining purposes. This changes everything.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
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RCP
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All of you magicians doing mental magic take the heat of the real work, good job👍
Max Hazy
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RCP, with my last post I was thinking of references such as Abbott. In the context I put, "real work" becomes "pretending to have super powers".

Mentalism don't have to rely on trickery and CAN be VERY real, but that wasn't the norm 100 years ago. Anyone can confirm that from the very old books.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman

"Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward"
Jan Forster


Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2017, RCP wrote:
All of you magicians doing mental magic take the heat of the real work, good job👍

And the hundred-year-old definition?
RCP
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Given multiple times, you just don't like it
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2017, RCP wrote:
Given multiple times, you just don't like it

What is it? The suspense is worthy of Hitchcock!
RCP
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Okay martin you have wore me out, it's a secret penguin item.. Its a nuclear powered red sponge bunny that transmits using a quantum satellite to a special brain implant. Now it codes it multiple times along the way and you end up with either a sweet or salty taste in your mouth so you know where the red bunny is. but be careful with your pre-show work Smile
Last Laugh
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Man this forum can be exhausting and tedious at times...
Just the name of this thread took a few days off my life.

I think that people get so locked into to caring what other people think, that they forget that they are free to think for themselves. But then again, that's probably that last thing most people want to do.
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Martin Pulman
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Nothing wrong with mentalists on a mentalism forum discussing the origins, history, meaning and significance of their art form. Personally, I find all the buying and selling of products and "get your pre-order in now!" and "my pre-order IS in!* threads far more tedious. But each to their own.
funsway
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One might find some useful thoughts in an old thread on the Café (2011)

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......410713#9
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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IAIN
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Sometimes it feels like it's not a discussion or exploration of thoughts...

It's more a "you don't get it, the way I think is the real and true way"...

Most people aren't interested in having a reasonable and fun debate over the differences which is a shame...

Let's all go back to putting two fingers to our foreheads and a hand fan of ESP cards...oh and a little goatee...
Martin Pulman
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Quote:

Most people aren't interested in having a reasonable and fun debate over the differences which is a shame...

Let's all go back to putting two fingers to our foreheads and a hand fan of ESP cards...oh and a little goatee...

That's not real mentalism.
IAIN
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Ok, mullets too...
Amirá
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Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, IAIN wrote

Let's all go back to putting two fingers to our foreheads and a hand fan of ESP cards...oh and a little goatee...


Oh wonderful and needed goatee

and ! don't forget the little devils on the shoulders
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Sealegs
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Mindpro, on the previous page of this thread you took a partial quote from the definition I offered: "...suspension of disbelief for mind based illusions..."

Your clarification was as to why this is a magicians definition was, "This is what I [Mindpro] was referring to. "Illusions" says fake, unreal, pretend, pseudo, deceit, etc. - Magic!"

Illusion does indeed say fake, deceit etc but your jump to that being, 'magic' doesn't make any sense to me. We are discussing a definition of mentalism not how magicians and mentalists promote themselves.

The methods of Cassidy, Osterlind et al are the means by which they create the fake/unreal/pretend/pseudo, illusion of genuine otherworldly phenomena or abilities that are presented as not being fake unreal pretend, or pseudo. Unless you are claiming Cassidy and Osterlind didn't/don't use methods in their work your position, that utilising some form of illusion must result in 'magic' rather than anything else, would make Cassidy and Osterlind magicians and not mentalists.

You seem to be treating the offered definition at it as if was a description someone might give of themselves in their publicity materials. This is (to my mind) a bizarre leap to make. The two things are not the same.
Neal Austin

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RCP
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Cassidy and Osterlind are magicians. You don’t have to believe me let’s look at Richards own words.

“If you're looking for new, cutting-edge ideas in magic and mentalism, you've come to the right place!”

http://www.osterlindmysteries.com/

Do your own research for bob, I’m tired of casting pearls before swine.......,
Last Laugh
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Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, IAIN wrote:
Sometimes it feels like it's not a discussion or exploration of thoughts...

It's more a "you don't get it, the way I think is the real and true way"...


Yeah that's exactly what I mean.

I absolutely enjoy good discussion where people are having civil discourse and sharing pertinent info, but that can be a small percentage of posts at times.
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Sealegs
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Who knew Ratners did pearls?

RCP; I read a post of yours in another thread where you said that all performing mentalists are magicians. So... if a mentalist is in a forest and there's no one there to see what they're doing, could what they are doing be mentalism? Smile Smile

Totally agree Last laugh. It's rare to have an actual exchange of differing points of view. On those occasions where this has happened in this section of the Café it has been quite illuminating. Unfortunately darkness tends to prevail.

I'd be up for discussing the merits or otherwise of what RCP put forward, that all performing mentalists are magicians.... or maybe even more generally that all mentalists are magicians.... but with such a supercilious way of expressing a point of view there seems little point.
Neal Austin

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Max Hazy
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Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, RCP wrote:
Cassidy and Osterlind are magicians. You don’t have to believe me let’s look at Richards own words.

“If you're looking for new, cutting-edge ideas in magic and mentalism, you've come to the right place!”

http://www.osterlindmysteries.com/

Do your own research for bob, I’m tired of casting pearls before swine.......,


OMG... Cassidy a magician... and he was the greatest defender of mixing things = different perspectives.

I was going to talk about marketing strategies of including the word "magic" when promoting or being known as something before doing something else, but reaching this point, it became a waste of time. The topic, the discussion, the complainers... pretty much helpless.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman

"Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward"
Jan Forster


Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
RCP
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History is history. You can ignore it or try to redefine it but it's still the actual factual reality of what came before. What someones point of view is doesn't matter , invent your own facts, tear down statues, live in an imaginary world. The history of the art is well defined. While all those that lived it are now gone they left us an enormous written record to understand how the split occurred, why it occurred and who profited from it. What is really amusing is all the hot new items in mentalism from penguin are straight out of the old works. While technology makes some things easier there is nothing new under the sun. Why "mentalism" works hasn't changed in 6,000 years but probably even goes back to the dawn of man.

"So... if a mentalist is in a forest and there's no one there to see what they're doing, could what they are doing be mentalism?"

Since any no talent bum can call themselves a mentalist they can believe whatever they want in a forest Smile or on a stage
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