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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Oct 25, 2017, landmark wrote: Yes you love government and hate company profits. But there is no check and balance on government, BUT with profit motive there can be AND with government regulation of the company it is even better.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Agreed, but the now there is still a choice. Give all the power to the government and there will be no personal choice.
Jack, since the government is so obviously incompetent and corrupt, I can't understand why you keep advocating to make it bigger and give it more power. I'm genuinely curious. You say socialism is the answer, but you never seem to explain how and why it would work this time. To be honest though, if they are going to waste/steal money anyway I'd rather it be spent here, than on all these pointless wars and multi billion dollar aid packages.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Oct 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote: Agreed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
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On Oct 25, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: No that's a fantasy. What check do I have on the private insurance companies? The freedom to say, "Okay, I'll go without insurance, that'll teach you!" What is the added value I'm getting as a consumer from the privatization of health insurance? They are a parasitic industry that extracts unearned money. A public insurance--not even talking about doctors or healthcare workers, but the insurance itself--would be far less costly and eliminate the unearned money spent on enriching the CEOs of these companies at workers' expense. And you say well then regulate the private insurance companies. But let's be real. The majority of conservative politicians are precisely against the regulation you say you are in favor of. Even as we speak, all kinds of regulations are being lifted and deregulation is strenuously fought for. You can't have it both ways. Either the Congress is here to make the lives of its citizens better, or it is there to enrich the few CEOs. @NYC Twister: I am for socialism--that is political and economic democracy--because capitalism does not work. Two World Wars and constant exploitation and wars after that prove that. After decades of technological improvements, how is it that the length of the working day has actually lengthened for workers? Where did the fruits of all that productivity go? It does not serve the majority of people in the world. Our present pathetic state is not some weird anomaly, but the logical evolution of capitalism that could be--and was--predicted more than a century ago. The classical 19th century economists like Adam Smith, Ricardo, and Marx all saw the difference between earned and unearned income. All of them including Smith saw the "rentier class" (i.e. bankers, land owners, insurers) as a class that merely added a layer of extracted cost without producing anything for the economy. They were seen as a holdover from the feudal privilege of the feudal lords who extracted the labor of the peasants because they owned the land even though they did nothing to work the land. It was called unearned income. Smith thought landowners should be taxed more than anybody else because their wealth was accumulated by doing absolutely nothing. Instead we have a ridiculous fiction of "capital gains" profits which get taxed at a much lower rate. It's the rewarding of unearned wealth production. Instead of adding money to the economy as a car business might or even a magic show, the rentier class does nothing but add overhead to business. These private insurance companies are likewise just there extracting money "because it's always been done that way." When with any real competition from the public sector, they would shrivel up and die. What is socialism? Not government guaranteed universal healthcare, although that would be nice. Do you really think England, France, Spain, Iceland, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, Belgium, Kuwait, Italy, Portugal, Brunei, Singapore, Israel are socialist countries of the kind you fear? No they understand that public healthcare insurance provides a competitive edge to their countries by lifting the burden on companies from paying for their workers' healthcare. When public infrastructure and funds can be used to lower the cost of doing business--highways, public utilities, public lending institutions--then it gains a competitive edge for its businesses and workers and is a good thing in my opinion. Since you asked I'll get off my soapbox now.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea you are pushing your agenda and nothing more.
You can go to another insurance company. See you pine away for ever bigger government. That is just not how the country works, or shouldn't.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
"Crony" capitalism doesn't work. All the problems you stated are a result of THAT system.
There is a massive difference. Please stop conflating the two terms. Take the money out of politics and then the politicians wouldn't have motive to enrich their owners. Most of the current crop wouldn't have gone into politics if not for the personal profit motive. One of the most hated women in history once said "the greater the mind, the longer the range." These fools can barely see to the end of their own life, let alone what is best for humanity in the long run. If they could, then they would see that better for all is much better for them - in the long run. Since you advocate for socialism, what would be the first two or three things you would change if you had unilateral power to enact change?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
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On Oct 25, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Come on Danny, you can do better than that. At least attempt a response. Going to another insurance company is meaningless if the rates are basically the same, and the conditions are the same and it's still way more than I would have to pay with a public option.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote: 1) What Adam Smith wanted: high taxes on unearned income, and capital gains 2) Public financing of credit and funding of Social Security from progressive income taxes, not the present capped regressive 15% set aside. 3) Public funding of health insurance for all 4) Public funding of education for all 5) Cut the military budget by 80%. Most of that spending is to protect the profits of rich people in countries that they exploit. 6) Much higher tax incentives for renewable energy sources such as solar, wind. But those are all achievable under capitalism and are in fact present now in several capitalist countries. Under true socialism I would expect democracy: the power of people to have say in those decisions that affect them and their workplaces and communities, free from interference of the power of the wealthy. That is not possible under capitalism. But now let me ask you a question NYC Twister: How does capitalism not become what you call crony capitalism? There is no difference. The fantasy of free markets is just that. There must be a government in order to adjudicate disputes in the market place. That government cannot be kept free of the influence of those who have more money than the others. That's even more of a fantasy than utopian communism.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 25, 2017, landmark wrote: Because of course a public option in your mind would be free.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Why not just take all the money from everyone? Mind you it can only happen once. So even THAT would not pay our debt.
You can tax all you want but until spending is under control it will never be enough. How does all this you pune away fir get paid for?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 26, 2017, landmark wrote: Ok, back atcha. How does socialism not become crony socialism? The point is that socialism cannot create the wealth it needs - it can only co-opt it. I agree with points 3-5, and, as you said, they've been done elsewhere - by using what capitalism created. When we finally find whatever system, or hybrid of systems, that works it will have to be one that recognizes the rights of the individual above all else. Socialism can't do that. In fact it does the opposite. Both systems require that we trust those in power to do the right things for all. At least we have some ability, under this broken system, to hold those people accountable. You've told me what you want, but you haven't told me how we get from here to there. What specific changes would you implement, while protecting the rights of the individual - including the rich individuals?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 26, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Agreed, but how do we get spending under control? We supposedly have a say in how our tax money is spent, but in reality we don't. At least we don't use the power we have effectively.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 26, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: All the items I've enumerated above either directly bring more money into the public coffers (raise capital gains tax, cut military, change funding of SS), or lower the cost of doing productive business (public education and healthcare, renewable and cheap energy sources) as well as provide for the citizenry. Dozens of other capitalist countries understand this, there's no reason we can't. NYC Twister's questions about "crony socialism" is also a good one, but I have to leave, so I'll try to respond to that later.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Cheap renewable energy is a myth so far.
Cut military spending how exactly? What SPECIFIC cuts do you make and what are consequences to our liberty? You want to find public education fir everyone, how long? One everyone has a college degree nobody may as well have one. You compare reality to fantasy and fantasy always wins. No shock there, but it is not how life works. I'm sorry. Socialism is nothing but cronyism in action. Please tell me that toy do bit believe that "the right people have just never been in charge". Or it has never been done just right. You constantly hammer aqay at a system that is flawed, but you propose a system that has proven to be flawed even worse just because you like the ideology. That's cool mind you. It is why we have ideologies. But you still have yet to show a system in history that has done this for 350 million people. You ignore the flaws in your own ideology and decry those in others. Not really fair.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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The Hermit Veteran user 301 Posts |
All data is equal. But some data is more equal than others.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Getting back to the original OP:
"If Blade Runner had a classroom scene, it might look something like the promotional video by BrainCo, Inc. Students sit at desks wearing electronic headbands that report EEG data back to a teacher’s dashboard, and that information purports to measure students’ attention levels. The video’s narrator explains: “School administrators can use big data analysis to determine when students are better able to concentrate.” BrainCo just scored $15 million in venture funding from Chinese investors, and has welcomed a prominent Harvard education dean, who will serve as an adviser. The company says it has a working prototype and is in conversations with a Long Island school to pilot the headset." Take a look at the smiling faces at http://brainco.tech/#/
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
I've seen the future brother
it is murder
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Did you see episode seven of The Orville? (Majority Rule)
or the second episode of The Black Mirror? (Fifteen Million Merits) Perhaps willful ignorance is a force of (human) nature?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
My only consolation is that when I look at that BrainCo video, it's done so laughably amateurishly that I doubt the company is professional enough to last very long. It's like a Saturday Night Live fake commercial.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
With a "Reefer Madness" poster in case anyone misses the joke.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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