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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Conspiracy Theories, False Flags etc. » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (37 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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NYCTwister
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Lol.

SO MUCH PROJECTION.

I could be completely wrong. I only glanced at a report of what he was accused of. Before that I don't think I'd even heard of it, except maybe when scanning through a paper at the time.
The plight of white conservative males is pretty low on my list of concerns. He has his rights and he's exercising them, so it's a non-issue.

From there we veered off into the inherent intelligence of women.

Like I said, it's not that big a deal to me.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Terrible Wizard
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Why the plight of white conservative (is Damore even conservative?) males? Why not the plight of people, or free speech? Why the racialised and genderised language? Do people have differing rights or privilege or claim to interest or sympathy based upon skin colour or genitals? I don't get it.
NYCTwister
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You read an awful lot into things TW.

I said that it's low on my list of concerns. If it turns out that his rights are being violated and he doesn't get justice, then it will concern me more.
If he was harassed because of his beliefs, then his harassers should face whatever consequences they have coming.

Child abuse, the state of the union, and the world, and at least a hundred other things are more important to me.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Terrible Wizard
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I don't think I was reading into anything, merely questioning why such phraseology came so trippingly off your tongue.

Did it not strike you as odd, after you read back your own words, that you focussed upon skin colour and sex as if they made a difference? I mean, rewrite the wording in your head replacing white for black and male for female - doesn't it sound a little weird?

Why note the race and gender at all?

That is all.
NYCTwister
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This is the only link I looked at -

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/08/james-......vatives/

In the first paragraph -

James Damore, a former Google engineer who was fired in August after posting a memo to an internal Google message board arguing that women may not be equally represented in tech because they are biologically less capable of engineering,

And that's why I used the words.

More often than not, a cigar is just a cigar.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
rockwall
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But, you see, this isn't just about a white male conservative getting fired from Google. And this is why it fits so well in this particular thread.

The bigger story, (and it's coming out now and over the next few days), is the story about Silicon Valley high tech SGW's and their attempts at limiting free speech, shutting down conservative speech, violating expectations of privacy, black listing those who don't go along with the group think, hurting businesses that show a conservative bias, etc. etc.

As an example. As a small business owner, I'm aware that 80 to 90% of new business comes to me through Google. As a monopoly, Google has the power to essentially put me out of business by blocking my business from google searches if they choose to. This is the direction the company and other high tech companies are headed in. Shadow banning businesses on twitter, demonetizing businesses on facebook. All for not being in lockstep with the progressive message.
NYCTwister
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I've said, many times, that all sides use propaganda and rhetoric, and only acknowledge their viewpoint.
Not good, as far as I'm concerned, no matter WHO is doing it.

He'll have his day in court, so no one is denying his rights.

If it's true, and we'll see, then it's basically just another case of discrimination; no less, and certainly no more important than any other instances of discrimination.

In the Free Speech thread it seemed that most who appear to lean conservative agreed with me, that private - meaning non-government - companies should be able to have WHATEVER rules they want, and that the people should sort it out with their actions.

This "bigger" story is no different from what millions have dealt with throughout history. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way, and the shoe is going on a different foot.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Terrible Wizard
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I don't think you responded to my post above, maybe you missed it. A re-post, then:

Did it not strike you as odd, after you read back your own words, that you focussed upon skin colour and sex as if they made a difference? I mean, rewrite the wording in your head replacing white for black and male for female - doesn't it sound a little weird? Why note the race and gender at all?

In response to your comment:
"The plight of white conservative males is pretty low on my list of concerns"

Note, you didn't say that this case was low on your list of concerns, or Damore was low on your list, you specifically singled out people of a certain skin colour, a certain poltical viewpoint, and a particular sex as not worthy of concern. Do you see why this is problematic?
NYCTwister
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No, I don't.

But I'm starting to understand you.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Terrible Wizard
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Really? It didn't seem odd at all.

Would it have sounded odd if I had replaced white for black, women for men?
NYCTwister
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Of the different "plights" various groups face, the problems of white conservative males is pretty low on my list.

Your attempt to make it into a bigoted statement is another piece of your puzzle; like a puzzle of a completely blue sky where all the pieces are just slightly different.

He felt he was discriminated against, he filed suit, the law will decide. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Terrible Wizard
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I'm not attempting to make it a bigoted statement, rather I think it was a bigoted statement. Not that I think you're racist or sexist, but the statement was those things as well as being collectivist. You jumped to thinking in terms of people groups rather than sticking with individuals - an unnecessary and unprovoked leap from the particular to the general. Hopefully you can see that.

Consider a parallel scenario. Let's say a black, liberal, woman was fired from a hospital for writing a memo outlining why she thought there were fewer male nurses than female, and offered some ideas on how best this could be addressed apart from diversity quotas.

Now let's imagine someone here sees this on the news and makes a comment about the case on the forum.

And then imagine I say in response, 'The plight of black liberal women is pretty low on my list of concerns. She has her rights and she's exercising them, so it's a non-issue,' even though the colour of her skin, her political beliefs, or her gender haven't been raised and aren't even relevant to the story.

What would you think of me?
NYCTwister
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I've pretty much figured out what I think of you but no, let's not imagine anything.

Let's just deal with what I said. I am not unconcerned about injustice of any kind.

I am simply more concerned about say, child prostitution, or human trafficking, not to mention my own life, than I am about a man who got fired, is suing, stands a good chance of getting a big settlement, and in the worst case scenario, has highly marketable skills.

As I said, the only article I read was the one I cited. In it HE appeared to say that he was being discriminated against for being a white conservative male. As far as I know, those are the words he used - so those are the words I used.

You may have time to research every little thing, and play word games as you try to put words in my mouth, but I don't.

Should his situation somehow become a bigger issue, then I'll think about it more. But until then, to me, it's no big deal - a non-issue.

To him, it's probably highest on his list of concerns; as it should be.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Terrible Wizard
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You seem to have needlessly adopted a rather hostile tone - there's no need to be so defensive. And I'm not playing word games, I'm simply commenting upon the problematic way you made a collectivistic comment. It doesn't help your cause if you come across racist or sexist, and if I came across in a similar way I'd like to be helped to adjust my manner.

"I've pretty much figured out what I think of you"
That sounds sinister.

What have you figured out about me, and what do you think of me? Don't leave me hanging, I'm curious.
NYCTwister
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I've adopted a slightly sarcastic tone with someone who insists on telling me what I'm saying.

Making a judgment is sinister? What happened to your big boy pants.

Please tell me how you go through life without judging, or prioritizing.

Basically, I've come to the conclusion that you're one of a new crop of pseudo-objectivists; obviously agenda driven, pretending they're interested.

Btw, I've received 5 pm's from people who are convinced you're a troll. Not my opinion, but since you're interested in what's thought of you, I figured I'd put that out there. Do what you will with it.

I'm off to Florida for a well deserved two month vacation.
I'll catch you in few...maybe.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Terrible Wizard
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How bizarre.

What has led you to such conclusions and such a psychological analysis (at a distance with very limited evidence, I may add)?

"Please tell me how you go through life without judging, or prioritizing"
Carefully. Although I don't think I've ever said I totally withhold judgement - merely that I withhold judgement before evidence (in other words I try hard not to pre-judge, only assess). Think about it as if you were a juror or judge at a trial. Do you make judgement before hearing the case? Of course not.

"I've received 5 pm's from people who are convinced you're a troll"
Even more bizarre.
Are these PMs from people here who are engaging with me, or just lurkers?

What led them to that suprising conclusion? After all, why would a troll rack up a large post count on a magic forum before even stepping foot into the 'controversial' sub-forum - surely a troll would just go in all guns blazing right from the get go? I've been here too many years to be a troll, it simply doesn't add up.

I suspect that these PMs are coming from people who are simply using the accusation of 'trolling' as a way to dismiss an alternative POV, it's a tactic I've come across before. But I'd like to know for sure.

Anyway, if any of the lurkers who PM'd about my troll status would like to join in the chat, or provide reasons for why they think I'm a troll, then I'm more than willing to spend time disabusing them of that notion. Unlike a troll I'm not going anywhere, please don't hide, come out and play Smile Maybe I can change your mind and help you see that I'm just a guy who is interested in stuff and likes to talk on the internet.

Enjoy Florida Smile Hopefully we can talk about more politics or whatever when you return. You can choose the topic, I'm happy to talk about almost anything (besides my personal life).
RNK
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Actually, I think NYCTwister is trying to label Terrible Wizard(TW) as a troll because TW actually makes sense. Especially with the research TW obviously puts in, not to mention not being from US and having the neutral opinion on the US and it's politics. Funny, how when someone not from the US can point out the obvious bias of the news for the left. Because of that, those that lean left will try to portray and say anything to discount the persons opinions. Funny, just like the mainstream media does.
Terrible Wizard
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Thanks for the vote of confidence, RNK. Smile. I can assure everyone that I'm not a troll.
Dannydoyle
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It is easier to call names and be nasty and call people trolls than to deal with the actual points made.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Terrible Wizard
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I appreciate the sentiment, Danny. And again: I'm happy to talk with any of those who PMed claiming I was a troll. Engage rather than making claims behind my back, I'm open to dialogue.
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