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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Boxes, tubes & bags » » Advice to learn linking Rings (13 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dougini
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Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Pete Biro wrote:
Buy my book, THE REAL SECRET OF THE CHINESE LINKING RINGS. Stevens Magic sells it. Almost every known routine included.


Please, Pete, allow me:

https://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/real-s......ro-book/

This IS the book! I gotta tell ya friends, if I had this book when I was performing...I did a bare bones version of Ken Brooke's routine. I like his count. But I never had the charisma I have seen from others. And ya DON'T need thousand dollar rings! Do they HAVE to ring like a bell? No. It's really the PERFORMER that rings the AUDIENCE'S bells! Watch Galina do the rings. Pure poetry! I try that? I'll end up in the hospital in traction!

Pete really spills the beans in this book. Workers note: This is an investment!

Doug
gismo
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How about Lord of the Rings by Jim Cellini?
Alan Munro
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All I can say is to find a routine that you'd love to perform and learn that. After performing it for real people, address those things about the routine that need fine tuning or changes. It helps to have some extra moves learned, so that you are more able to make changes.
Rainboguy
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Oh....by the way.....have I mentioned here lately that you should buy Pete's Linking Ring Book?

"Cause you SHOULD. His Book is THAT GOOD! And required reading, I think, for all Linking Ring enthusiasts.....

Pete.......send me the check later.....
Pop Haydn
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I often hear people recommend that a beginner watch a lot of routines, and take the best things from each and put together his own routine. This is terrible advice. It is like saying to someone who has never cooked, take all your favorite ingredients and make something to eat.

If you have never studied a routine and understood how it works, why one thing follows another, the build, the argument and all of that, how do you expect to create a routine?

I could never have constructed my ring routine had I not first learned and performed regularly both the Symphony of the Rings by Vernon, and Jack Miller's Five-Ring Routine. It is not just the moves. One needs to understand how each move fits into the argument of the trick and how to build the interest level of each section of the routine.

I always recommend the student study and learn routines that have been created by knowledgeable magicians. Until you have learned to entertain with the rings, how can you create your own routine? What are the criteria you would use to evaluate one routine over another? What is a good routine? What makes a weak routine?

It is important to study real routines and compare them so you can understand what makes one routine work differently from another.

I find that amateur magicians are always the first to want to take bits and pieces and put them together without understanding. Being original before you learn the craft is a mistake, in my opinion. Organized magic has done a lot to encourage "originality" over good performance. I believe magic is best learned from copying.
61magic
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As always Pop's advice is spot on.
Too many "routines" are just a bunch of moves with no logical sequence.
The worst example of this thinking is the card guy who tries to put every move he has into a "routine" to impress his magic buds. No entertainment except for himself.
Don't be a "move or sleight collector" be a performer.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
Dougini
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Quote:
On Jan 9, 2019, Pop Haydn wrote:

...Being original before you learn the craft is a mistake, in my opinion. Organized magic has done a lot to encourage "originality" over good performance. I believe magic is best learned from copying.


I would add, that you do not PERFORM that copied magic. It is for LEARNING. I mean, yes, try it out on a few people, but your polished act should be YOU! Your performance is honed and fine tuned. You don't have to THINK about the props. Very little chance for mistake or error. Pop Haydn has a unique insight into this craft, which I find refreshing...

Doug
thomasR
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Doug, are you saying that it has to be original in order to perform it? Copperfield performs floating rose pretty much exactly as Kevin James.. other than the music I don't think he added much to that routine. And that's ok because it's a great routine and it fits what he does.

Now Darren Romeo performs the Floating Rose VERY differently from Copperfield and James. He makes it work for his style.

For me, I feel like I can, if I choose to, perform Pop Haydn's linking rings for the rest of my life. It works with my style and it is an excellent routine. (although one day I may want to learn another routine, like the Symphony, or Jack Miller, etc.) I don't think there is a need to develop my own routine to be a good performer. (Obviously this only applies to routines that you can purchase, I would never perform a routine that was not available.)
Dougini
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Good point Thomas! Smile
murf
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While teaching magic to youngsters, I found that the Jay Marshall routine on the World's Greatest Magic Linking Rings video is a great place to start. The first few moves are very easy to learn, yet very deceptive and entertaining, so the student gets a feeling of accomplisment and, hopefully, an incentive to work on some of the more involved moves.

Murf
Pop Haydn
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I definitely believe that using published routines "as is" is okay. You don't change the words to suit your vision of Hamlet.

I think that many magicians have no idea how hard it is to make magic routines and patter. Most bad magic is "original" material put together by people who don't know what they are doing. No one would tell a beginning musician to "just make up your own songs" before the student has learned to play any other performers' songs. It is terrible, awful advice to tell someone to be original unless they have become comfortable performing decent routines by others.

There are exceptional magic "geniuses" that don't need advice or instruction, but I have nothing useful to tell them. For most of us, we must put in our time performing and learning the basics before we are ready to create something new.
carbone1853
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Pop Haydn is exactly correct. Let me summarize.

Learning the Linking Rings
1) Pick a routine you like. Pop Haydn's comedy routine or Dai Vernon's Symphony of the Rings are both great and both can be found on video. Do not change anything!
2) Learn the moves in the routine
3) Learn the routine
4) Practice the routine in your living room as if you are performing it to a audience. If you will use music have it playing. If there are jokes tell them.
5) One a week or so, video your performance and check your progress. This doesn't have to be fancy, a phone will do.
6) When the trick is ready, perform it for live audiences.
7) After many performances, you will get a deep understanding of the rings and now you are capable of creating your own routine (if you want)
Bill Hegbli
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Here is a routine by David Ginn.


Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
AllanK
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Thanks for the memories, Bill! I performed David Ginn's Linking Ring Routine when I first started performing publicly in the late 70s. It was published in booklet form - no videos then! It was a great routine and always went down very well with adult audiences - of course I changed the patter to suit my own style, but I kept the structure and moves that had been proved to work by David Ginn. Around 1987, I discovered Whit Haydn's routine (again, published in booklet form). I practiced it for months and months before I dared replace the Ginn routine. I have never looked back. It is a superbly constructed routine that will play anywhere under any conditions, with the laughs coming in at the right places with pinpoint accuracy. I agree entirely with Pop's view above - learn an existing routine that works first. Vary it only after you have a lot of experience with the original.

Allan
Don
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Pop:
You are right on the money.
Tony Noice
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I must join this love fest. Pop Hayden's advice is always super valuable and eminently practical. I really admire his comment about the performance of HAMLET. From an ethical standpoint, you can certainly do someome's routine word for word as long as you bought it legitimately in print or video. The important question is: Do you have the acting chops to make it real just as Olivier's and Branagh's renditions of the exact Shakespearean text were real. If the actor/magician means what he or she is saying, it will be both faithful to the original and unique. (I teach acting at a university and have a PhD in theatre.) Whit, please keep contributing to this board -- we need you.
Dynamike
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2018, Frank Simpson wrote:
Another excellent resource is Levent's Ultimate Guide to The Linking Rings. It's a 4 DVD set(!) that is extremely comprehensive.

Levent is a great teacher, and he makes things easy to follow which is not an easy task with the rings.


I agree with Levent's Linking Rings DVDs. There are a lot of routines he teaches. Watch them all and pick your favorite: http://www.leventmagic.com

I remember when I was a teenager back in the seventies. I had the 8 linking rings and instructions. I would try learning for a little while and give up. Months later I would try reading the instructions again and give up. I was not able to do the routine until my shows were increasing in my mid twenties. It took a lot of practice. Since I know all the moves I purchased other books and DVDs to learn more routines. But I like the first routine I learned with the 8 rings the best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS78iI6cwh0 The only move I leave out from the instruction book is the "Falling Ring."
Pop Haydn
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Quote:
On Apr 30, 2019, Tony Noice wrote:
I must join this love fest. Pop Hayden's advice is always super valuable and eminently practical. I really admire his comment about the performance of HAMLET. From an ethical standpoint, you can certainly do someome's routine word for word as long as you bought it legitimately in print or video. The important question is: Do you have the acting chops to make it real just as Olivier's and Branagh's renditions of the exact Shakespearean text were real. If the actor/magician means what he or she is saying, it will be both faithful to the original and unique. (I teach acting at a university and have a PhD in theatre.) Whit, please keep contributing to this board -- we need you.


Very few people could adlib their way through Hamlet, either. I am amazed how many magicians resist scripting their acts word for word.

Because of television and the internet, people get to see a lot of magic. Classic tricks become familiar and tired. Magic, in my opinion is like side show. It should be rare. I think magic is more like singing than stand up comedy. Classic magic effects are like old familiar songs. They can seem tired, until an artist breathes new life into them.
Ray Pierce
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Pop has so many wonderful points. My 8 ring I created years ago as a challenge (as I had never seen anyone do 8 rings clearly and well) has carried me around the world several times. I've done the exact same routine for 4 people or 4,000. It appears spontaneous yet every word, look and take is done exactly the same as it helps motivate and move the story forward while creating a totally false memory the audience will believe and carry away with them when they tell the story. I'm equally as proud of the pure awe it creates as well as the fact that it resets itself which took some extra time to routine. 1 year to develop, 40 years to practice... and I still find more subtleties and nuances to improve it every day. I love doing it as it is one of the few pieces which forces me to be on my game each and every performance as it is 70% psychological and must be adjusted to each audience and situation to bring about the correct response. I have always said that a professional is gauged by consistency.. but that means not consistency of execution but consistence of results. Even though my handling and script has been the exact same for 40 years, I always have to work hard to maintain a delicate balance with the routine for each and every audience. Select (or create) the best routine you can, then spend the rest of your life mastering it. Remember, the first 10 years are just practice.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
JNeal
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I used to do eight rings clearly and well, but got side tracked for about 40 years doing a 2 ring routine.
It got me some nice bookings back in the day....

Now I have discovered the error of my ways and developed a brand new six rings routine that is unlike Vernon’s in several respects.
It certainly is a lot quieter.
And they say you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.....
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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