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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts 
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Rick Lax doesn't have a version
You mean in his copy of osterlind's ? Apparently when you ask the spec to cut the deck - the spec doesn't need to follow that instruction, they can just throw the cards in the air - gather them up and it will still work Is that what he has brought to improve this effect - hmm |
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Goldfield Veteran user Traveller 388 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, JackMagic wrote: Jim made his feelings pretty clear earlier on this thread. What is also clear is that this is a blatant copy of Richard’s work.
The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love & be loved in return.
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts
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I presume Lax was taking the P
As he says 6 years Because he knows that Six Shooter came out 5 years ago ha - what a chump |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, JackMagic wrote: I really struggle with arguments like this... independent creation is a very weak point in my opinion, lets say I invent a way of using a billet, I do no research and then someone says "hey, this is the same as *insert name here*" why do people think its then ok to say "well, I wasn't aware of that, but its still mine...so I can release it..." no you can't... the only issue here is that there's no real protection for creators unfortunately...so legally its very rare to be able to stop someone releasing it... also, its about PUBLISHING that invention too...getting it out there.... publishing something original, or a good healthy improvement takes a lot of time and energy -
I've asked to be banned
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Goldfield Veteran user Traveller 388 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2017, Sven Rygh wrote: Actually it was on Osterlind talk and the gentleman’s name was Al all of which Richard mentions and credits on the Sapphire DVD.
The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love & be loved in return.
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Jared Inner circle Rhode Island, USA 1579 Posts
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[quote]On Dec 6, 2017, The Duster wrote:
"Apparently when you ask the spec to cut the deck - the spec doesn't need to follow that instruction, they can just throw the cards in the air - gather them up and it will still work." Duster, I really enjoy reading your comments. I literally laughed out loud reading this and nearly spit out my coffee! LOL |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12968 Posts
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So, does this mean I can't perform it even though I own it?
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts
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It's also not about who published it first, it is about who created it and the proper permission and crediting, EVEN IF there are slight variations.
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Colin (C.J.) Special user 564 Posts
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There's a reason Rick doesn't post on the Café anymore. What's that saying? If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
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Jared Inner circle Rhode Island, USA 1579 Posts
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The problem in our cottage industry is that in almost all cases creators cannot obtain patents because economically it doesn't make sense. Therefore, we need to rely on people to do the right thing by asking knowledgeable industry veterans to verify whether their creation is original or a variation of another person's work. And in cases of it being a variation, the individual should contact the original creator to ask for his/her permission before going to market. Forums like the Magic Café do provide sort of self-police system to call-out violators. But the sad truth is that in most cases the damage is already done. The person who introduced the product has already profited from the wave of introductory sales. To compound the issue, new magic releases are being introduced to the market in enormous quantities compared to years ago.
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marc_carrion Special user 638 Posts
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There is a book about MD that mentions how to control any card selected into the 27th position (not using jokers, it seems that Rick uses jokers, so 28th position on his case?). I don't remember this trick in the book (I can check) but it mentions that as an option to control any card, it actually uses that control for other effects. The deck is called the siamese deck, it's applied to the stack in the book, but you can use any stack you want. For the price I would go with the book, you'll learn a lot more than what is needed for this effect. If this effect was 1.99 I would say go ahead and get it, you would learn a nice principle for that amount.
I can't talk about crediting, not sure who came up with it, Rick may had came up with the idea. The author of the book above mentions he came with the idea, but further research took him to J.G. Thompson, Alex Elmsley, Paul Curry, Hofzinser, Jordan and Burling Hull. None used it like the author, but all used the same principle in a similar way. |
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Waterloophai Inner circle Belgium 1369 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Colin (C.J.) wrote: A lot 
and Penguin looks the other way (that's a pitty because it is a firm with a good reputation) |
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Magic KL Inner circle 2571 Posts
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Does anyone know if the deck is examinable at the end for Rick's and Richard's?
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drstevemagic Loyal user Addicted to For Sale Forum so only have 265 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Magic KL wrote: I am only familiar with "Hands Off" but if they are as similar as this thread reveals, then I would have to say for most people's interpretation of examinable, definitely NOT for both. |
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Magic KL Inner circle 2571 Posts
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Thanks
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marc_carrion Special user 638 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, drstevemagic wrote: Fair point, I'm not familiar with either method, I'm assuming what Rick's method is. |
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Jared Inner circle Rhode Island, USA 1579 Posts
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Please refer to the other thread related to this effect for more details. But to answer your question, with Rick's original handling, the cards can be spread across the table pretty openly compared to Richard's. I doubt very much that a spectator would notice anything suspect. By comparison you can show a casual handling with Richards but what negates the notion of duplicates being in play is that the cards are dealt face up until you reach the forecasted number.
I've now purchased both effects but still prefer Richard's version. I recall the first time watching Richard's presentation I nearly got 'chills' because it was so crazy good and seemingly impossible. But in fairness to Rick's it does have merit particularly if you wanted to perform the effect table-hopping or in casual situation because you can spread the cards face-up more openly. Richard's is more of a theatrical piece that is better suited for stage/parlor work...Not to say that you couldn't perform it table-hopping or visa versa with Rick's. It ultimately comes down to your own personal preference. |
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Jared Inner circle Rhode Island, USA 1579 Posts
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In case you missed all the drama. Acar from Penguin created a new thread for "The End" and clarified the misunderstanding about Rick stealing from Richard. According to his post, Rick's version was created BEFORE Richard's and that Penguin got in touch with him to verify this point. He also stated that the core effect was actually published about 40-years ago. The moderator's deleted the duplicate thread because some very distasteful remarks were made about those who wrongly criticized Rick.
I apologized for jumping to a conclusion about the true originator but also added that if Penguin (and all dealers for that matter) provided customers with more details in their advertising blurbs then much of this mud-slinging could have easily be avoided. I also provided a good example by re-writing the blurb for "The End" in a manner that would have cleared any misunderstandings from the onset. Sure, many of us are quick to jump to conclusions and it's probably because we are loyal to many of our favorite creator's because they made such an impression on our own acts(we want them to be treated fairly!). Secondly, some of us envision ourselves being in the exact same situation of having a creation wrongly stolen and marketed for profit after so much time and effort was invested into creating the effect. |
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Gregor Mann New user 68 Posts
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So it took Rick Lax 6 years to perfect this... And after 6 years he has an inferior handling compared to Richards effect that came out 5 years ago. So what exactly has Rick "invented" 6 years ago? He is a creator who has to deliver new stuff almost on a daily basis and waits 6 years to release this... I absolutly dislike Rickys "reinvented" mathematical stuff. Has He already reinvented the Gilbreth principle ? Or the one behind the "wispering jokers" trick? I am sure he will
My latest Rubberband effect
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7616 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-rjVv3a60g&t=18s 10 Tricks that might fool you or not
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Gregor Mann wrote: IMO both these tricks (The End & Hands-Off), though very similar in their workings, have their own distinct advantages and limitations. Hence it won't be correct to say that one has an inferior handling than the other. Our friend Jared, over the course of discussion in this thread, has very nicely brought out the pros-n-cons of both tricks. 
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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Posted: Dec 6, 2017 12:11 pm 
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