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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Nesting effects. (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Gordon the discombobulator
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Does anyone use 'nesting' when preparing their effects? The theory is you perform effect A, then at some point you break off and launch into effect B, and again break off and start effect C. You finish effect C, they are amazed, but before they can applaud you hit them with the finish to effect B and totally wow them by ending effect A. This is considered better than three separate effects performed back to back as you get three wows in quick succession.

More complex routining is something like A B C B D E E D C A

You need lots of phrases such as 'speaking of x reminds me...' as you start a new effect and 'where was I? , oh yes.." as you return to a previous effect.

Thoughts?
Gordon the discombobulator
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The other bonus, especially for close-up, is they can't stop and have a discussion e.g. 'how did you do that?' As you keep returning back one level. The final ending is something they will never work out.
Mr. Woolery
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I dunno. Seems like a lot of folks just don't have the attention to spare, looking at 3 or more tricks at the same time.

My own preference is for one-on-one performing, and I am an amateur, so that shapes things a bit. That said, I'd rather do just one thing and do it really well.

If you were to do, for example (just because everyone should know this one), B'Wave, does it make sense to stop after you've narrowed it to a red card and say "speaking of red, have you read any good books lately," and pull out MOABT, then get down to one word and you've identified that there's an S in it, then "Oh, I forgot, you eliminated the Spades from these cards, how about we narrow it down a little more?" and THEN, you say "and speaking of the letter S, I have an ordinary SPOON here, watch as I stare at it for a moment, but before anything happens I want to show you that I knew you'd think of the word Salamander, and oh look - the only card that is face up is the Queen of Hearts like you figured out, and check it out, the spoon is bent!"

Now, maybe that would work for you. Maybe better than how I'd do it. Because I'd stop after B'Wave. I'd make that one little effect as much about the other person as I can. If they wanted me to do something else, I'd probably do a palm reading. Because, again, it is all about the participant. Which makes it much more fun for me, really. I don't want to be the amazing one, I want to be the one who makes people feel terrific. There's a world of difference, at least in my casual performing situations.

And why is a discussion a bad thing? I've made friend with mentalism. I've made people feel like they are amazing. I know that they are aware some of what is happening is purely because of me, but so what? If I am asked how I would know they'd choose the Hearts, I simply say "I didn't know. But you seemed like the sort of person who would choose hearts, so I decided to try it with you."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your intent, though. What effects do you mix to do this?

-Patrick
j100taylor
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I agree. Keep the effects simple and straightforward.
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Nestor D
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I have been thinking about this idea after having seen it applied in a few mentalism stage shows.
Most TV shows do the same thing using interlaced stories : if a spectator is not interested in a particular story or if you are in a part that is useful for the rest of the show but not very interesting (setup of an effect ?) you can rely on the other stories to keep the attention of your spectators.

B'wave is obviously not adapted but some effect have multiple revelations and can be interlaced that way (even in close-up).
Dandin
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Read the work of Eddie Clever and Ted Annemann. It is not a new concept. Psychics use this all the time. They start with one person and suddenly turn their attention to someone else and then come back to the previous person etc. If you are a mindreader it makes sense that you will get thoughts from all over the place.
Steven Keyl
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Callbacks can work with a very well-scripted stage performance, but for close-up, heavily scripted bits only serve to create a distance between you and the participants. Focus more on the interaction, and keep the effect simple.

Don't conflate simple with mediocre.
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Gordon the discombobulator
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I am in two minds about nesting. I have an opener and finisher and various middle effects but not much to connect them. They are all separate events. After my closer they sometimes say 'show us some more.' and sometimes I can tell it is time to finish straight after the opener. When I get good reactions during the opener I am thinking about using nesting.
Dandin
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Just because you have scripts it doesn't mean that you have you to stick to every word in the scripts, but knowing in advance what you are going to say gives you self confidence which is a very important factor in performing.
theocreswell
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I use it (however conservatively, it can create confusion in some routines) I think it worse great to create a disconnect in the spectators minds from methods. e.g. Have something written down, p**k the info, do another routine and then come back to the written info. not needed but useful!

-T
Dandin
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I think you are talking about time misdirection, that's another reason to use this ploy.
jstreiff
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Major issue is that everything has to be incredibly clear and well-presented, otherwise your audience gets lost and there is no effect at all.
John
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Quote:
On Dec 25, 2017, Gordon the discombobulator wrote:
I am in two minds about nesting. I have an opener and finisher and various middle effects but not much to connect them. They are all separate events. After my closer they sometimes say 'show us some more.' and sometimes I can tell it is time to finish straight after the opener. When I get good reactions during the opener I am thinking about using nesting.


When someone says 'show me some more' after a closer you need to walk away. If you feel you need to finish after the opener, you need a new opener. If you have nothing connecting the open and close, you need a new act. Nesting/callbacks won't help any of this. You need a theme that connects it all. Callbacks only work with a strong theme or no one will be able to follow and connect them all. Get a cogent reason for all of what you do first.
George Hunter
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There is good precedent for a mentalist being being prepared for an "encore" when the audience is really interested. I have read that Maurice Fogel typically held his Pseudo-psychometry effect available for such a contingency.

I often keep my Haunted Key routine ready for such a case.

George
Gordon the discombobulator
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I have 3 or 4 openers depending on the type of close-up audience (even within the same event or same pub/restaurant) E.g. Young lovers on a date, families, hen/stag group., etc. And sometimes they are just awkward or more drunk that I realised so I stop after the opener. My style is very two-way conversational so hardly any scripting just a strategy to get to the end point. When the opener is going well I might be able to find a common link to let me segway into any another effect by using nesting?
IAIN
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For me, (I only do close-up, at a table designated for me) I think this 'nesting' is too messy - I always try to build things in 3s and 5s... beginning, middle and end... so the call back/nesting is that the thing that is done or talked about at the start, is pulled back in some way for the finish...so its like story telling, films etc...

the opener helps explain who I am and what I do, there's a small intro demonstration, then there's the major "thing" that's more involved and involving of people, and the final piece is bigger still BUT contains an element of the first thing in some way... and as its all character driven, I want it clear and clean and concise... and I like to ask questions too as it gives me free insight into the people at the table, and I can alter what I'm presenting accordingly too (for me, the methods/technqiues are the same, but I can alter the presentations gently)
IAIN
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To clarify, if I'm with writers and journalists, they'll think of a headline they wrote...if its with arty people, it'll be drawings and photos, but the techniques used behind the scenes remain the same, but to THEM its still about memories...but I'm working with them in a realistic way, so I need to get them to access those memories in the most natural way possible...
thomasP
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For scene nesting will be good to keep a good rythme, I can see Colin Cloud using that a lot.
For close Up, not sure.
Senor Fabuloso
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I had not heard of nesting until this thread so my take may not be of much use? I can remember trying the Max Maven effect Mockingbird. While my instructions were clear and concise somehow things got messed up. I recovered with and ID but in the environment I was in I realized that there was just to much mechanics for the audience to take in. Point is the layering of a simpler effect with coins or something might have done well to keep things moving and more clear. Idk but in context and with proper justification this nesting could and would work. Now one question why:? Are we trying to use the multiple effect approach to keep things clear and moving or are we trying to amuse ourselves. If the latter is our motivation I would abandon the premise.
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Philemon Vanderbeck
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It's not quite nesting, but I could see a performer doing a series of effects in a show that normally have 'kickers,' but waiting until the end of the show to reveal them. In this case, they are actually 'callbacks.'

I've seen Derren Brown use this approach in his shows.
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