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funsway
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My irritant of the day is the mangling of the term "value." We hear it daily from advertisers including the Café marketplace.

What does the term mean to you? I looked it up in several dictionaries and NONE of them discuss an artificial price set on an item as a marketing tool.
A couple (way down) mention "market price" as an option - far below, "fair exchange" and "of practical use or utility."

When the TV guy claims "these items have a value of $179, but you can have them for $19.95," what does that mean? Has anyone ever actually paid $179 for these items?
If not, the claim is fraudulent as no one has ever "valued them" to that extent.

The same diamond ring can be found for $1000 or $8000 depending on store. Which is the true value? NONE! The price of diamonds is artificially set,
the "must give for engagement" an artificial notion created during the Depression, etc.

Closer to home. A person gets a magic trick packet from China for $2.00. He never performs it. Its value to him is either $2.00 or zero.
He desires to sell it and references a site where the original was listed at $49.95. He claims a "fifty dollar value for only $18.00."

Why is the term "value" included at all? For a magician, the value of a prop or sleight or story line is the enhancement of their ability to accomplish whatever it is they are trying to do.
That fact that a person is willing to sell an "opened but never used" trick says that the package has very little value to them.

Is it really all about the artificial price of an object? Isn't there a better word to use? Why not just "Retail price $49.95, my offer shipped $29.00"

Why is the concept of "value" so abused?

Please don't respond with "everybody does it."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
NYCTwister
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You have a new irritant every day?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
funsway
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
You have a new irritant every day?


Only when I watch what passes as news on media these days.

By irritant I mean something that needs intellectual scratching. Thoughts of cultural de-evolution only occur weekly.
Many of my irritants come from repeated buzzing of pests, thus, not "new"-- just annoying.

but, thanks for the query - it does give me pause...

there was a time in which my day was highlighted by finding joy in others, humor in events and lessons in experience.
Now, I do seem to be more affected by detractors rather than positive images and thoughts.

Must be the cold weather, or at least a chilling draft ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
landmark
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Back in the day, Adam Smith, David Ricardo and Karl Marx had a lot to say about the difference between "use value" and "exchange value," which people are still arguing over today...

Quote:
The word VALUE, it is to be observed, has two different meanings, and sometimes expresses the utility of some particular object, and sometimes the power of purchasing other goods which the possession of that object conveys. The one may be called 'value in use ;' the other, 'value in exchange.' The things which have the greatest value in use have frequently little or no value in exchange; and on the contrary, those which have the greatest value in exchange have frequently little or no value in use. Nothing is more useful than water: but it will purchase scarce any thing; scarce any thing can be had in exchange for it. A diamond, on the contrary, has scarce any value in use; but a very great quantity of other goods may frequently be had in exchange for it. (Wealth of Nations Book 1, chapter IV)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2017, funsway wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
You have a new irritant every day?


Only when I watch what passes as news on media these days.

By irritant I mean something that needs intellectual scratching. Thoughts of cultural de-evolution only occur weekly.
Many of my irritants come from repeated buzzing of pests, thus, not "new"-- just annoying.

but, thanks for the query - it does give me pause...

there was a time in which my day was highlighted by finding joy in others, humor in events and lessons in experience.
Now, I do seem to be more affected by detractors rather than positive images and thoughts.

Must be the cold weather, or at least a chilling draft ...


I hear you man.
When you try to keep up with the info overload, you start to feel your mind fraying at the edges; especially if you try to make sense of it.

One of my resolutions for this year is to not waste my time thinking of things that are out of my control. I spent to much time arguing about things that I could ONLY argue about. I have no real power to change government policy, and a very limited power to change the beliefs of others in any way that directly affects me; so I personally need to fine tune my time management.

As for your OP, value is an arbitrary construct. The fact that the word is manipulated for particular advantage is expected.
This is a world run by humans after all.

One of the problems we face here is that after a century of "teaching" memorization, instead of critical thinking, we've become a nation that lacks the tools to properly value anything.
That's how Kim K, and the rest of the talent-less garbage, are millionaires instead of asking people if they want fries with that.

Stephen Hawking recently placed human stupidity right behind A.I. as the greatest threat to humanity. I'd place it at the top of the list.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Terrible Wizard
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I once, not that long ago, gave up watching TV, reading news etc. It lasted a while, and I was noticeably happier. Just sayin.
landmark
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I have no real power to change government policy,


The space is narrowing, but it's not a completely hopeless situation; especially when we think about working with other people, rather than believing that the tools available have to be individual solutions.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote:
I once, not that long ago, gave up watching TV, reading news etc. It lasted a while, and I was noticeably happier. Just sayin.


Why did you stop if you were noticeably happier?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2017, landmark wrote:
Quote:
I have no real power to change government policy,


The space is narrowing, but it's not a completely hopeless situation; especially when we think about working with other people, rather than believing that the tools available have to be individual solutions.


The fact that you need to point out that the situation isn't "completely hopeless" doesn't exactly fill me with hope.

But I hear you, and oddly, agree - but only in the long run.

I don't think this particular center is going to hold. There's too much frustration in the world.

This only fundamentally changes in one way - ironically by people working together.

Happy New Year Jack. We survived another year in NYC, which to me at least, always seems weirdly significant.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
...Stephen Hawking recently placed human stupidity right behind A.I. as the greatest threat to humanity. I'd place it at the top of the list.


Hmmm - that's not so optimistic as he likely knows the line often attributed to Einstein about infinity and stupidity... Smile

Richardson and Boyd offered a differing opinion in "Not By Genes Alone: How Culture Transformed..." (2005) "In Effect, all animals are under stringent selection pressure to be as stupid as they can get away with." Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
NYCTwister
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Speaking of value, can anyone explain what the heck Bitcoin is.

From what I glean, it looks like a sophisticated scam.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
landmark
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It's the frammous in the quaffaree. But watch out for the sanafor in the apataf, otherwise it's jubjub.

And a Happy New Year to you.
Terrible Wizard
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Twister:
Curiosity, followed by outrage addiction, followed by a need to be able to talk to others without being an ignoramous. The same three things that have made me miserable in many other ways. Pleasure has never been as much of a driving factor for me as fear, social pressure, the desire to know things, the will to power, etc. I'd make a bad hedonist Smile
NYCTwister
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On Jan 3, 2018, Terrible Wizard wrote:
Twister:
Curiosity, followed by outrage addiction, followed by a need to be able to talk to others without being an ignoramous. The same three things that have made me miserable in many other ways. Pleasure has never been as much of a driving factor for me as fear, social pressure, the desire to know things, the will to power, etc. I'd make a bad hedonist Smile


Uh, what does this have to do with Bitcoin?

If you're implying that I'm addicted to outrage, you're wrong. There is no shame in being be outraged at the outrageous. Nor in hating the despicable.
Negative emotions are natural when warranted, screw the PC police.

And, just a suggestion, maybe you should have other driving factors other than fear, peer pressure and the will to power, whatever that is to you.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
NYCTwister
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On Jan 3, 2018, landmark wrote:
It's the frammous in the quaffaree. But watch out for the sanafor in the apataf, otherwise it's jubjub.

And a Happy New Year to you.


Happy New Year to you, again, Jack.

You know, you could have explained it without making me Google quaffaree, and jubjub.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jan 3, 2018, NYCTwister wrote:
Speaking of value, can anyone explain what the heck Bitcoin is.



Consider the value of gold - by weight. It does not care whether it's in the form of two old coins or a lump of metal or a nicely cast ingot. The value is known.
But trading physical gold is cumbersome ... but we do seem to have an internet... so the operating idea is "value" you can verify and trade for things online.
Naturally those who wish to be party to financial transactions would find such an item of interest.

In more detail...
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-gold-usd/

was gonna link to **** discussion on pricing bitcoin buy no need to connect those dots for this conversation. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
landmark
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Jon, I'm also new to this. As I understand it, the value of gold, before it was a commodity, was dependent on its use value, scarcity, the value of the labor hours and organization contained within to produce it. More gold could not be produced without effort. But what stops Bitcoins from being arbitrarily "mined"? What exactly does consensus mean in this context? Majority? All? Can one group of investors sway an outcome to their own advantage? The central bank can create dollars that don't exist, but that's only because it's backed by a huge military apparatus that punishes those who don't "consent."

It's interesting to see with Bitcoins the recapitulation of money, meant to foster the exchange of commodities, turn into a commodity itself which is traded.
funsway
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Consider that every time you write a check or use credit card, you 'create money." There is no backing value beyond the pretense that you, or someone will pay the bill.
Numbers are shifted from one account to another and you are charged a fee for the convenience. There is no "money" except as a concept. Almost magic!`
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
landmark
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Yes, Ken--but the backing for that is that when the banks overextend and get caught with their pants down, domestically, they are paid off with bailouts from taxpayers. A forced transfer of wealth that no one consented to. Meanwhile, they continue to demand debt repayment abroad at the point of a gun.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
But what stops Bitcoins from being arbitrarily "mined"? What exactly does consensus mean in this context?


The source of bitcoin is known and it's being created at a known rate. It's the free-trade part that gets some folks excited. Arbitrarily created "appearing" bitcoin would show up pretty much the same way artificial or duplicated social security numbers would surprise our ordinary recordkeeping. "&**-7&-4###" on a form would raise some eyebrows, no? Smile

On the local side - just saw an odd news ticker about US ending policy to allow legal marijuana to flourish without federal intervention. Since we're looking in terms of "minting" money (or things people trade for money) Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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