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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » "The Spellbound Problem" (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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jim ferguson
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2018, Signet wrote:
I have been practicing Spellbound the traditional way, exchanging the two coins. I practice in front of a mirror. When I try it using a c/s, I get the same effect. Honestly, it's much cleaner with the gimmick. I then do a Bobo switch to a JFK. Is it bad form to do this? It's definitely much easier being a beginner.



There's nothing wrong with that approach at all. Instead of the Bobo Switch, you could use a final Spellbound type change from the copper side of the gimmick to the regular half.


Jim


PS - Tons yes, I was referring to the Goshman thread in my above post.
Wilktone
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Hi, everyone.

Thanks for the very interesting responses. Lots of cool ideas, suggestions, and things to think about for me. Here are some thoughts I've had reflecting on the responses.

Funsway, you may be right - it may simply be better to avoid Spellbound in favor of Wild Coin or another plot. That said, one of the benefits of being an amateur is that I get to explore what interests me without regard to what's going to be commercial.

So many magicians have explored different approaches to Spellbound, I think there's something important to be learned in there. In classical music we have something called "etudes," which are studies designed to teach music students how to play better but aren't necessarily meant to be performed. Some etudes are so well-composed that musicians perform them anyway. Maybe Spellbound is a coin magic version of an etude.

Dr. Rubinstein, thanks for the references to your lectures and Encyclopedia. I have all those resources (I have a bigger library on coin magic than an amateur probably should have) and will go back through them and look at your suggestions.

Tonsofquestions, you may be right about my patter in the video, but I've actually performed it for friends using something similar. You may recognize my influence here. I told my friends that I was auditioning for a "very exclusive magic club" that has a lengthy audition process where you have to go through a series of trials to be considered a full member. My first task was to come up with a "clean ending for Spellbound." So to explain, I performed my version, ending with, "Now all I have to do is figure out what to do with the Chinese coin." They seemed to enjoy the "peek backstage."

Zauberman I like your idea of changing the coin into paper money. That could be fun.

MB, thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I still need some work to make those changeover palms look smooth and not like a move.

Rick, I've always enjoyed watching your videos. It's neat to see you play around with those different props and incorporate them into coin magic.

Lastly, I'm curious if anyone can suggestion some resources for material that use a copper/silver and Chinese coin in a Spellbound routine. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has come up with this idea of Spellbound ending with the production of a Chinese coin and I'd like to see what the experts have come up with. Or maybe the experts reject that approach, but I'd be interested to hear why.

Thanks again, all.

Dave
Jonathan Townsend
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On Jan 9, 2018, Wilktone wrote:
...resources for material that use a copper/silver and Chinese coin in a Spellbound routine...

The standard reference is Roth's triple change spellbound. It's in his book Expert Coin Technique.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Wilktone
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Quote:
On Jan 9, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 9, 2018, Wilktone wrote:
...resources for material that use a copper/silver and Chinese coin in a Spellbound routine...

The standard reference is Roth's triple change spellbound. It's in his book Expert Coin Technique.


Do you mean "David Roth's Expert Coin Magic" by Richard Kaufman? I'm not all the way through it yet (chapter 10 still), but I don't recall any Spellbounds in this book. There are many effects with a copper/silver, but they usually use duplicate half dollars and English pennies, rather than a Chinese coin.
Michael Rubinstein
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Look at my Triple EG Spell from Richards Almanac number 1, vol 3. (Also in my Penguin Live lecture 1). Then check out Scott Robinson's routine Heavy Metal from 1998 (Trapdoor vol 3 no. 68) and Reed McClintock's routine in Knuckebusters 3 from 2002, both based on that. The NYCMS dvd series had a few nice triple spellbound routines (including one that uses Stealth palm) and Curtis Kam has a real nice one as well. Don't forget Wild coin routines, and David Roth's Workers Wild Coin also in the NYCMS dvd series has a chinese climax.
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David Neighbors
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I have A triple Spellbound, As well as my 5 way spellbound And a lot Of other spellbound stuff In my 1 St. hardbound book!
David Neighbors



The Coinjurer

www.coinjurer.com
Mb217
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Quote:
On Jan 3, 2018, Mb217 wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 3, 2018, simplymagicweb wrote:
Here's what I do as an opener...

Coin production - chinese coin
Quick spellbound - chinese into dollar, and back again
Quick flurry sequence, ending in jumbo coin production.

Has a beginning, middle and definite end with the jumbo production.



I like the use of a shorter approach to Spellbound, and or to use it as part of or within a little larger presentation.

I agree, to go back & forth with one coin is cute but a bit monotonous and can lead to helping the specs figure out what you must be doing, though they might not be able to explain it just so. Using the "3rd Option" of a Chinese coin is a good way to end *(Hey, Tone, smooth out that Changeover Palm and you'll have something there). Smile I actually did something like that many years back now on my Short Pockets download, "Copper/Silver SURPRISE!" It used a couple of elements mentioned by Wilktone but was heightened by my use of the Crimp Change which took away the expected need to bring together both hands to make a change. Smile That usage broke-up the spec's possible thinking of any such trickery going on hand to hand. Most of all, it was not a long, drawn out, back & forth to things, but just a nice bit of unexplainable magic they could easily follow, enjoy and always remember. Smile I always thought of that as a "gem" piece in the download, because it supplied a unique tool & usage toward a classic work that gave you another jumping off point as to the effect. In fact, I came to do many other things behind the concepts I described there. And y'know, I still think that "Short Pockets" download was one of the very best things I ever did and shared with the craft...All of the rest of me from there, comes from it in one way or another. Smile

I've also played with Spellbound using other moves, like in my "SPE'L" offering in my more recent Double Trouble download, that really keeps front and center the use of just one coin as to the changes. I think short & sweet seems to work better as to Spellbound than when you sorta "yo-yo" specs back in forth with it over & over again. Of course, creative outs like the finale of a Chinese coin, sle**in*, a final change to a dollar bill, etc., create hard right turns that usually throws them off the beaten path of it all. And y'know, I like the notion about keeping it "simple," it really fits my thinking nowadays as magic that "Less is More." Smile


Man, meant to post this as an example... Smile

First, what I used to do... Smile




And what I do now... Smile

*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
The Burnaby Kid
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The major problem with Spellbound is conceptual and you get to the point where you're digging a bigger hole the more you try to illustrate the effect. The natural suspicion is that you have multiple coins, because the effect leads you in that direction.

Here are two underutilized approaches to dealing with that problem.

The first is that you don't repeat the effect. You show a copper coin, you establish both that coin and the emptiness of the hands otherwise, you do the magic (visual or not), and then you show a silver coin, and establish THAT coin and the emptiness of the hands otherwise. The issue here is that you don't merely imply with subtleties or whatnot, you establish things as clearly as possible. Ross Bertram is one worth looking at for this sort of approach.

The second is that you define the effect more specifically. If you just have one coin, wave the hand over it, and then show another coin... what's the effect? Have we given them an effect or just a surprising result? Why does waving a hand over it accomplish anything? What's the effect really? Contrast this with something like karate coin, which on an abstract, methodological level is really the same thing as Spellbound, but the effect is much different, and raises different questions at different times, offering new opportunities to enrich the trick with cleanup and whatnot. Another option is to vary the nature of the change. So, you get a washer that's about the size of a quarter, you rub your hand over the middle, and then show the hole is gone, but it's still a blank, and then after that you add the heads side, with the tails side still smooth, and only after that do you complete the quarter.
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Al Schneider
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I addressed the problem with this routine.

https://youtu.be/NL_isdqiF0A

It has been very, very successful.

Long ago I made the coins for this routine and sold it.
But that was very long ago.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Al Schneider
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I mentioned this routine to Richard the chief genii at the Genii mag.
He thinks it would make a great article.
So, it is on my schedule to do next year.
So, if you want the skinny on it, you can get it next year.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Rick Holcombe
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If anyone is interested, I teach a Spellbound routine on my latest project with Copeland Coins.

It’s a silver dollar to dollar bill using my new technique, Sly Palm.

The project is 45 minutes full of techniques for vanishes, productions, color changes, steals, and a click pass too. This is a new palm/grip that you can immediately place into any of your coin magic you already do!

Check it out at www.copelandcoins.com
Mb217
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Yeah Rick, I mentioned something about changing the coin to a surprise object, like a "dollar bill"...Always hightens the magic. Smile

*And if you guys (the big, small & all of you) haven't checked out Rick's new "Sly Palm" offering, what are you waiting for??? Smile It's a wonderful new method that you can even use with your own magic. It's NEW, quite interesting, and highly recommended for any journey forward in your coin magic. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

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Michael Rubinstein
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Spellbound has no problem
It is a simple effect, coin changes a few times. Problems come from magicians who think that changing the color is the only focus of the routine. It needs a beginning, a middle, and an end. It needs a few color changes, 3-5, and nothing crazy. No acrobatic stupid type moves where the magicians credit you for your ability, but laymen don't know the difference. Hard is not better. Lack of movement is better than manipulation. 20 changes bad. 3-5 changes good. Watch the masters, Vernon, Kaps, Goshman. Not today's digital jugglers. The effect is that the coin changes color. Leave it at that. People know it's not the same coin. If you have a copper and silver half dollar, they STILL know it's not the same coin. Keep it simple. Did I mention no acrobatic moves? Concentrate on making a move magical, not trying to catch a coin in motion. End with a vanish, change to a third coin, a ring (change the ring to a coin to start the routine and it becomes circular). Just keep it simple. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. Oh yes, keep it simple.
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Jonathan Townsend
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When you do Spellbound - what are you showing the audience?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Al Schneider
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There may be some misunderstanding about what spellbound is about.
I am not sure but I could use Albert Goshman as an example.
I hung out with him a bit when he was popular.
I saw him do Spellbound many times.
He invested tremendous energy making the coin change.
While watching the change one did not think of two coins.
One mentally and physically saw a single coin change from one coin to another.
Albert devoted his life to this effect.
How many are willing to do that.
I cannot.
Al
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Mb217
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Interesting comments here, glad I happened back upon it and re-started this thread... Smile

Above in my "Spe'L" (My Spe[cia]L Coin) effect in my Double Trouble download, I make a deliberate effort to show that there is just one coin. This is effectively achieved IMHO, by my regular open shows of my hands. I find this to be effective in helping the specs to accept that there is just one coin that changes to another coin, and then eventually back again. With all the trappings I built around the shows and eventual ending, I've never thought specs thought of two coins by my presentation, but instead "...just saw a single coin change from one coin to another."

I do believe that less is more, and so agree here that just a few changes seems to work best, at least for me. In my take above, there are actually only two changes, and I've found it plays magically well enough to people...I'm just sayin'. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

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Jonathan Townsend
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There is some video of Al Goshman performing Spellbound online https://www.magicana.com/video/albert-goshman-spellbound
There's much better film and video of him doing his act available. https://www.magicana.com/news/blog/take-......-goshman

You still need a premise that puts those changes into context. Al posted a link to his routine with a cone. You can find other examples of context in David Roth's Wildcoin, Planet, Rainbow and Blank Coin routines.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Al Schneider
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That video clip of Albert doing Spellbound is not the way I saw him do it in person.
When I saw him do it he barely touched the coin and it changed.
It was so fast it didn't look like he covered the coin.
So, I don't know what is going on here.
In my experience I never got much of a response out of a direct spellbound.
My conclusion was to simply not use it.
But the routine with the cone kills.
Hence, I used it.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
karnak
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Quote:
On Oct 13, 2019, Al Schneider wrote:
I addressed the problem with this routine.

https://youtu.be/NL_isdqiF0A

It has been very, very successful.

Long ago I made the coins for this routine and sold it.
But that was very long ago.

...

I mentioned this routine to Richard the chief genii at the Genii mag.
He thinks it would make a great article.
So, it is on my schedule to do next year.
So, if you want the skinny on it, you can get it next year.


I absolutely LOVE Al's Cone and Coin routine. I bought his "The Al Schneider Technique volume 3" DVD just for it alone. Lots of other great material on it, too, making that DVD a real bargain. But for me Cone and Coin alone was worth the DVD's full price.

Al, will your upcoming Genii article on C&C include any additional tips on handling, technique, subtleties, or other new pointers?
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Al Schneider
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Well, I think so. I am kinda thinking of more details on making the cone.
Some other magic sellers have talked to me about handling this.
When they find out how I make the cone, their interest fades.
However, due to your kind post, I will try and do a more complete job.
Al
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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