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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Deadly Mentalism By Ben Rayot, and/or Pure Effect by Derren Brown (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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francisco
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Has anyone bought a copy of this book?
A few days ago I posted a topic asking about any good books for pure mentalism effects, and some very helpful person PM'd me and suggested this book [Deadly Mentalism By Ben Rayot]. I have looked into it as a good buy, 7 effects and they all look pretty cool, such as one which is described as 'Being able to tell a spectator what star sign they are? How about going into more detail and revealing the spectators birthdate ?!'

I am very interested into this book but it is £20 (inc. p&p) so if it is a flop I don't want to be wasting my money!

How about 'Pure Effect by Derren Brown'?
however at £35 its a bit on the expensive side!

Can anyone say they have bought or looked at either of these books?

thanx
-Francisco
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'

[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism]
Withnail
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Pure Effect is essential reading if you want to improve as a mentalist.

Don't buy it to learn tricks, buy it to imrpove your performance, as it did mine.

DM is ok, as far as a book of routines goes, some of it is really good.

So my advice would be look at where you are now, look at where you want to go, then decide what's best for you.

(Ps - they're both worth having!)
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Karswell
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They are both very different. Any decision would have to be based on what you are looking for:
DM (to abbreviate) is a short booklet with some effects. The star sign effect you mention, without giving anything away, is of the usual progressive type which I would have to say is covered much better elsewhere(E.g. TA Waters; the underground collective's 'Sensory Projection'/panagram; Doug Dyment's 'Sign Language', etc.) and clearer in almost any source(honestly, it is almost unreadable in DM). There are some good ideas though.

PE is a hardcover book. It is more of a collection of short essays on different subjects written in Derren's personal style. Nearly all the effects pertain to playing cards - but don't let that put you off. Personally and for any mentalist, I find the discussions contain invaluable instruction, advise and ideas.
Subjectively, buy PE.

Nick.
francisco
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Hi thanx 4 your input guys-but can either of you recommend any books that a beginner in mentalism [me!] could learn effects from? I have just read 13 steps to mentalism by corinda and found a lot of sleights etc in it, but a lot of it needed specialist equipment. So is there any books that would use a lot of the basic sleights from 13 steps but has a lot of effects in it?

thanx
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'

[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism]
Withnail
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Karl Fulves Self working mental magic.

That's great for beginners with some great ideas.

Which (IMVHO) is what performing mentalism is all about.

From there, buy Corrinda's 13 Steps book, which is a must read for you if you want to progress.

This will teach you all the basics and groundings to start with.

From then, there are a million and one books out there - so find your style and pick a route but above all...

Don't forget to have fun Smile
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Karswell
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There really aren't many beginner books. I would have a look at Fulves 'Self-working Mental Magic'.
When you are ready to jump in a bit more, take a look at Mind, Myth and Magick - TA Waters. It may seem a bit more pricey - but its probably THE most value-for-money book out there for the range that's covered (as well as being an acknowledged classic).

Nick.
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The purists will say Corinda or Annemann are the best for beginners and by and large that is true. However, I do believe that Bob Cassidy's Fundamentals of Mentalism is perhaps one of the best pieces of work for the beginner (his reviews and comments on the value and content of other works is invaluable). I just wished I had access to it when I was starting out. Terrific effects, witty and engaging writing style and invaluable advice from one of mentalism's greats. I cannot recommend this text enough.

MMM is a good enough book albeit a bit dry and the effects themselves run from being so-so to the odd extremely good (if presented correctly). It's really just a book of effects with little valuable instruction on mentalism principles or thinking outside of the effects themselves. It's more of a reference book than anything and as a beginner this is not recommended.
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No one has mentioned Annemann’s Work.

I’m with James in his praise for Cassidy’s Fundamentals.

Francisco, you will find Pure Effect very inspiring, as well as Absoulte Magic, also by Derren Brown.

Try to study an undestad the thinking behind mentalism. If you really understand that, you will be able to do miracles even with a swengali deck.
mrfluffy
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Deadly mentalism has effects that are really just variations on other well known effects.

The star sign effect is just T.A Waters progressive anagram with an extra bit added.

As a resource it's OK but there are better out there

fluff
Xia
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Or even Doug Dyment, but lets not go there.
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francisco
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Thanks everyone, from the information here, the two books that are now on my list of 'wished-for books' are

Karl Fulves Self working mental magic
Bob Cassidy's Fundamentals of Mentalism

Thanks everyone you have all been a great help!
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'

[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism]
Niko
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I think you should get a Derren Brown book too. Doesn't have to be now but wait a while til you get some money.
-Nik
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Mark Roberts
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Have to agree with everyone on Pure Effect.

However, I don't think it's a book for the beginner.

As has already been mentioned previously 13 Steps and Annemann are a good way to get the basics. I'm a big fan of Bob Cassidy and Richard Busch has the ultimate take on peeks and billet work. There are others, of course, but I think that these are a great way to start.

With DB's Pure Effect you get more out of the book on advice on performing style and methods. Derren's work on the Verbal Card Forces and some embedded command suggestion routines are pure genius.

Anyone who has the book and has read the phrasing that Derren uses when flirting with a female spectator, will know what I mean when I say that the way the phrasing and embedded commands are structured is pure gold Smile

I also have Deadly Mentalism and there are some good routines in there, although as someone else has already mentioned, they are mainly variations on a theme.

Francisco, if you are just starting out. Get Corinda and Anneman first. After that, save up for Pure Effect. Derren's in depth thinking on the presentaion of mentalism is essential.

After that, well... the world is your oyster..... and mentalism can seriously damage your bank balance Smile
sir_hugo
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I found the Ben Rayot book very thin and very lame. I'd save your money.
gerard1973
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I agree with sir_hugo about Deadly Mentalism By Ben Rayot. Pure Effect by Derren Brown is a much better purchase.
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Dai Vernon
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For the basics, Practical Mental Magic by Annemann is good, along the lines of 13 Steps. You can find it in paperback, if you check your local shop or look online. Also, don't forget that there is a lot of good basic mentalism in Tarbell, which is often overlooked these days.

Pure Effect is very good, but I agree that it is for those with a little more experience. Once you get the basics under your belt I would go there; also The Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy, Paramiracles by Ted Lesley, and the above-mentioned Mind, Myth and Magic by T.A. Waters.
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mesmer
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Fransisco, if you are a Working Pro, You should aford to get both books,
£20 + £35 is not expensive for a working Pro...especialy if they are Busy!.....you may not need one of them at the present time, but you can accumulate a Great amount of Knowledge in terms of Presentation & Ideas....to put your act ahead of the game
LLL
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Pure effect is now selling for around £100 + on ebay... gutted I sold my copy for £30
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
Mesaboogie
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Why on earth has the thread started up again two and a half years later. Something tells me Fransisco may have made his mind up by now Smile
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bevbevvybev
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Quote:
On 2004-04-20 18:34, sir_hugo wrote:
I found the Ben Rayot book very thin and very lame. I'd save your money.


me too

also have no idea why gerard1973 dug up this incredibly boring thread from 2004
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