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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Can I hire you for $30USD/hour to train me in mentalism over skype? (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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dervish
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Howdy! My name is Geoff, and I've been studying / practising mentalism for a few months now.

I've invested quite heavily in training videos + gimicks...... BUT because I don't have any friends who are interested in mentalism, I don't really have anyone to discuss or practise mentalism with.

I'd like to pay you $30USD/hour (paid in advance via paypal) to discuss / practise mentalism tricks OVER SKYPE with you if you have the patience / skill / enthusiasm to mentor a beginner in mentalism.

I want to present to you my patter / script, and get honest blunt feedback on what you like and don't like. I want to brainstorm and jam together. I'd also like to see you perform some of your favourite tricks, to inspire me.

I am based in Australia so the best time to meet over skype would be 4:30pm NEW YORK time or 1:30pm LOS ANGELES time.

If you are interested, please private message me with a few paragraphs about your skills / experience with mentalism (in particular any information RE where you have performed). If you have any videos of you performing on youtube please include those too.

Thanks for your consideration. Looking forward to meeting you!

cheers,
Geoff
The Lone Stranger
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Hi Geoff

The working mentalist Paul Brook does offer a 6 month learnig programme at his web site He Knows; perhaps get in touch with him and see if it is what you are after

Regards
Raum
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Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jan 22, 2018, Raum wrote:
Also:
http://www.mindgemsbraintrust.com/


Not for 30 bucks an hour they won't.
Cervier
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I'm doing it for free for some other people, and you tell me you're willing TO PAY??? Smile

...Stay right there, I have a few phonecalls to make Smile
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
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Mindpro
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LOL!
Senor Fabuloso
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While I can understand why you would offer to pay people for help I think this is anti the Café creed. Magicians helping magicians seems to be without cost on this site. Much marketing goes on and the site is ad supported but I believe that's the extent of the monetary aspect of the site. I can't mentor you in mentalism as I haven't even had my first paid performance yet. But if you just need a friend I'm here and willing to share ideas and knowledge.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Mindpro
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This reminds me of a post several years ago whee someone posted here and contacted Bob and myself offering $5,000 to train them to be a mentalist so they could start doing stage shows and tours within a year. Look how much we have heard from him since.

This also happened another time (not sure if it was on the forum or by PM) when a teen's father was making a similar offer.
dervish
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I appreciate the feedback. I personally think it's only fair to pay someone if they are dedicating their time and experience to coaching me in a focussed professional consultation format (as opposed to just hanging out as friends). I'd feel too guilty asking someone to volunteer 10 hours of their time, without me recognising that their experience has cost them thousands of dollars and hours.
Mindpro
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10 hours of time? To learn mentalism?
SilasJude
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I feel you would be way better off investing in some high quality books and lectures, learning as much as you can from those sources, then performing in public, record those performances, and come back here for feedback. No matter what you pay a tutor or mentor, the real growth will come from actually performing
dervish
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Mindpro and Silas Smile I've already invested 100+ hours in reading books watching videos. BUT I've probably only ever done about 10 hours of real performance (i.e. to friends and family etc).

I've never performed to a complete stranger, but in 4 weeks I have about 15 hours of scheduled "walk around" informal mentalism performance.

I agree there is nothing better than performing in public!! It's a good idea for me to film some of my performances and give that video to my mentor for feedback. Good tip! Smile

I had never thought about asking for feedback on my video HERE at the Café. Would the "penny for your thoughts" forum be most appropriate? Or is there another forum for feedback?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and support.

Geoff
Mindpro
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Let me give you a little bit of free advice. I wouldn't even begin to think of posting a video here if you are not going to be honest, open-minded and willing to accept critique and criticism.

So let me touch on just what you just mentioned here so far... 100+ hours barely qualifies you to even use the word mentalism let alone have an understanding of it or claiming to be one.

10 hours of "real performance" is not true. Performing for family and friends, especially as a mentalist, is not close to a real performance.

Next the 15 hours of walkaround that you have scheduled will be as a magician, not as a mentalist.

You really can't make such claims as "there is nothing better than performing in public" as you have never done it yet to make such claims. It would be like a virgin boasting how great sex is!

People are willing to help you but you must help yourself first by starting at a place and dealing in complete honesty, not your perception or illusion of what you wish it to be.

Yes, we all have to start somewhere and this can be a great place, when you are in the right place and utilize it in a productive way.

This may seem harsh to you, but I'm willing to claim it is likely the best advice you have received here so far.

You have 5 posts so far. Perhaps let's back up and start on the right foot by telling us a bit about yourself - your age, location, how long you've been interested in this or magic, and so on. I have been in new talent development most of my adult life and what I've stated here is something all new wannabe performers need to hear, but more so understand.
dervish
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Thanks Mindpro for your honest feedback and advice Smile I appreciate it.

Good point about the 10 hours of friends /family performance NOT counting as true performance.

Sorry, I don't quite understand why you say "Next the 15 hours of walkaround that you have scheduled will be as a magician, not as a mentalist". Why is that?

========= a bit more about me ==========

I have loved mind powers since I was only 8 years old. I became interested in things like telepathy, telekinesis, hypnosis, neuro linguistic programming..... and eventually discovered MENTALISM via Derren Brown.

For the first 12 months of watching Derren Brown, I absolutely believed that everything he "claimed" to be doing was exactly what he was doing. It took a long while before I realised that half of what he was "explaining" was actually just ANOTHER layer of an act. What genius! A deception behind another deception!

Derren Brown is my biggest role model / inspiration currently…. and I’d like my style of mentalism to be somewhat drawn from his strategies.

Instead of just LOVING being in the audience of mentalism shows.... I have a strong commitment to creating my OWN SHOW! I'd love your support in making this dream a reality.

I love all forms of mentalism but I'm not really a big fan of PLAYING CARD TRICKS. I don’t like playing cards because I feel that positions me too close to traditional magicians (and everyone knows they can do false shuffles / forces… so it reduces the WOW impact in my opinion).
Medifro
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"100+ hours barely qualifies you to even use the word mentalism let alone have an understanding of it or claiming to be one"
I enjoy Mindpro's posts though I find this post discouraging, and a bit elitist. Yet mentalists and really mystery performers, in general, aren' exactly innocent of this sort of thing Smile

dervish, my free advice: if someone doesn't believe in you and in your capabilities in becoming a better performer ( and Mindpro does ), then stay away. Too many performers teach to feel better about themselves. Indeed, it's an oddity that many performers actually offer their creations in the market as a way to get some sort of social gravitas, which is an odd place to be. An instructor should focus on how you become better, not how good they are and hence how their advice should be followed blindly.

Offering money in return is perhaps the best decision you have undertaken as it gives you leverage. I suggest looking into Paul Brook's course above ( which if I'm not aware ). As well, I suggest getting more performance experience first before investing that amount of money. Performing is the best investment you can do for yourself as a performer and is necessary to put whatever your future instructor's advice into practice.

Best of luck to you.

- Feras
dervish
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Thanks Feras for your kind words.

I absolutely agree with you. I want my mentor to be like tough and direct and brutally honest..... but for MY BENEFIT rather than their own pleasure in knocking me down.

I appreciate mindpro's point of view.... which is that becoming a true mentalist is a bit like becoming a doctor. It can take years and years of practise to really become even half good!

Thanks to this topic, I have decided to book a bunch of "practise" performances, before my actual performance in 4 weeks.

Nothing beats real practise (and even better with strangers rather than friends, like Mindpro suggests).

Cheers guys!
Geoff
Senor Fabuloso
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My offer of friendship was genuine but if you would prefer to pay for a friend I understand. That's how many of the fraternities in university maintained membership and it seemed to work well for them. Good luck to you Geoff and may your quest to find the mentalism within you be a happy one.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Ben Blau
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Seems like a sincere request for help. I have no problem with this. I hope you find what you’re looking for.

-Ben
Cervier
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@dervish
If you don't have anyone around, any seasonned performer I mean, or if you fear they would "protect" their business and not help you (some people are like that), then your asking is a good idea, and offering to pay is as well.

That said, you'll learn a lot by yourself, especially if you already have some knowledge (even if from books & videos only), by performing. By being a bore --and learning how to correct that. By failing --and learning how to correct that. By making people laugh and applaud --and learning how to repeat that Smile

Someone with some knowledge of stagework will be a great asset. I got help from magicians (with whom, as a mentalist, I didn't compete), and from a close friend who's a musician in a band and a natural actor. Remember, mentalism is a "live" art, like acting, singing, juggling... Most rules for stagework and storytelling are the same whatever the art, so for instance, if you have a friend who has an eye for acting or otherwise analysing performances, ask him to follow you and look at your performances, that'll help you a lot!
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/
Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay
Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic
Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore
Mindpro
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[quote]On Jan 22, 2018, dervish wrote:
Thanks Mindpro for your honest feedback and advice Smile I appreciate it.

Sorry, I don't quite understand why you say "Next the 15 hours of walkaround that you have scheduled will be as a magician, not as a mentalist". Why is that? [quote]

Thanks for trying to accept the information offered. That is a great first step in your journey.

I said this to distinguish that just because you perform a mental effect doesn't make you a mentalist. There are many magicians who do this yet think they are mentalists. Mentalism and being a mentalist is far more than just the execution of mental effects (not tricks, tricks are for kids...and magicians.) Mentalism is about there being much more at play from a different foundation, believability, understanding, positioning and then the proper performance execution based on these. Without it one is just a magician doing mental. Since these will not be learned, understood and in place by the time of your gig, you will not be a mentalist (you couldn't possibly be) but rather a magician performing mental-based tricks. This is why a magician and a mentalist could both do the same effect and one absolutely stun and slay an audience with amazement and incredible response, and the other get an obligatory mild applause seeing it as a trick (By the way I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on playing cards, but it, along with much of what I'm telling you will not likely be well-received here as there really are few working professional mentalists here these days. Most that frequent here are hobbyists or magciians doing mental magic. Again, honesty is the starting point.

Medifro, please don't confuse the honesty and reality one needs to hear with being elitist, if that were the case every teacher, professor or other trainer, coach or educator would be portrayed the same way. The beginning is where crucial habits, perceptions, understanding and foundations are formed and where real-world advice and input is most needed. It is also where listening to theories, arm-chair knowledge and accepting opinion as fact from the wrong people (even if they think they are just trying to help) can be both damaging and create setbacks of time, effort and often money.

It becomes a matter of does someone truly want to learn mentalism or just learn something that looks like mentalism that can be passed off as such? This is soooo common with magicians. I see it daily with hypnosis. Guys come to the hypnosis forum here claiming they want to learn hypnosis, yet when honesty prevails and the truth is flushed out, they do not truly want to commit to learning the art and science of hypnosis, just what can be learned easily and passed off as such. Two hugely different things. We see it here all the time with today's "mentalists."

So the advice I'm offering isn't to discourage him or to be elitist, but rather to give him the honest, real information he seems to be seeking and to identify and separate the two. The truth of the matter is spending 100 hours or even 200 hours is not enough to truly learn mentalism. Is it enough to learn the magician's version of mentalism, sure, but his question wasn't about that, it seemed sincerely about learning actual mentalism.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Can I hire you for $30USD/hour to train me in mentalism over skype? (11 Likes)
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