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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Can I hire you for $30USD/hour to train me in mentalism over skype? (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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dervish
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Hi Mindpro (and everyone else out there!)

I'm relatively new to all this... but my gut agrees with you Mindpro

Is the following paraphrasing correct?

the difference between a mentalist and a 'magician doing mental tricks' is
....with the mentalist, the audience has strong subconscious/conscious justification to TRULY BELIEVE that the mentalist is actually genuinely reading someone's mind.
..... with the magician doing mental tricks, the audience still takes some pleasure in the trick even though they know deep down that it's just a trick (just like most audiences know that when a magician disappears a rabbit, the rabbit isn't really disappearing).


Geoff
Johnny250
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Taking a mentor who knows how to teach is a great option, but usually very expensive. I can suggest you read Ken Weber's maximum entertainment at the beginning and understand that the most important thing is to be interesting and entertaining. That's what the audience will remember.not if it is mental magic or mentalism
IAIN
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innermind
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There should be a mentalist boot camp.

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"Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else." -Will Rogers
Argon
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Hi Geoff,
if you are looking into resources I recommend Fernando Figueras penguin lecture. That touches on some of those topics and I find very insightful.
Cheers
Stefan
IAIN
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Honestly, any teacher runs the risks of passing on their own biases and ways of thinking. Especially in these creatively driven subjects.

Don't just pick anyone, see them work, see how they interact with the audience and so on...

$30 will in no way pay for that person's time and energy. Work out the basics, where you might wanna go. Watch some lectures. Spend some time thinking.
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Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jan 23, 2018, dervish wrote:
Hi Mindpro (and everyone else out there!)

I'm relatively new to all this... but my gut agrees with you Mindpro

Is the following paraphrasing correct?

the difference between a mentalist and a 'magician doing mental tricks' is
....with the mentalist, the audience has strong subconscious/conscious justification to TRULY BELIEVE that the mentalist is actually genuinely reading someone's mind.
..... with the magician doing mental tricks, the audience still takes some pleasure in the trick even though they know deep down that it's just a trick (just like most audiences know that when a magician disappears a rabbit, the rabbit isn't really disappearing).


Geoff



Geoff,...kind of. As a mentalist, you can not expect everyone to truly believe that mentalism is real or genuinely reading someone's mind. First, not all mentalism is mind reading. There can be many aspects of mentalism that have nothing to do with mind reading.

Secondly, as a mentalist your job is not to convince anyone of anything. You are simply providing what you do, based on the right and proper foundation and framing, for them to come to their own conclusion based on what they see and experience. HOWEVER, what you say, and how you do it (both physically and non-verbally) will heavily influence how and what their belief, understanding, and interpretation will be. That is why what we do is so important. Yes, mentalism presents the plausibility or possibility of it being real or possible. With magic, EVERYONE knows it is not. They KNOW it is fake, trickery, deception, illusion, etc. They approach it and go into it with this firmly in mind.

Mentalism is so strong and impacful because many feel it is real or at least possible. This is also why it is so important before you ever perform a mentalism effect, to have created the right foundation (a mentalism foundation, not a magic foundation) including all of the elements and aspects that go with it, as this, combined with your effects, will create the entire picture and provide all of the information the audience sees, learns, and experiences.

Again, this is why I said earlier you can't learn mentalism in a few weeks or months. First and foremost mentalism is an understanding - an understanding of what it is, NOT what you want to twist it to be to suit yourself and any such self-serving needs. Of course, without this foundation firmly in place, everything built on it will be wonky and you will get yourself into trouble and at the very least send mix messages that will work against you and your credibility. Again, this is not present with magic.

Next, if anything you do in your performance is seen as a trick or magic, EVERYTHING ELSE IN YOUR PERFORMANCE (including your image and perception as a performer) WILL BE SEEN AS MAGIC TOO.

Now understand, there is nothing wrong with doing magic or being a magician, but it simply isn't the same (on many levels) as actual mentalism. The problem, as you can see here, is many magicians want to use mental magic and the term "mentalism" to be what they want it to be, muddying the waters as if it something subjective to whatever they want it to be.

I hope this better clarifies what you were asking above.
Senor Fabuloso
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Regardless of what one calls themselves the impression on the public is the same. Just ask David Blaine. An admitted magician but when doing mentalism they think he has powers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqNhqaBfBx4
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

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Philemon Vanderbeck
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I agree. To most laypeople, there's nothing incongruous with the concept that someone with 'real' powers might also dabble with 'tricks'.
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Adrien L.
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If I could give myself an advice when I started was to sllllloooow down... First, don't try to learn so many effects. Learn a bunch you like and work with those. You will learn that you can use the same method and the same effect, but perform differently and be received very differently.

Second, slow the performance down: mind reading shouldn't look effortless. Small things are easier (which hand holds the coin, which ESP symbol are you thinking, etc), but playing cards, drawings and words should take longer. And bring the audience into your mind: don't stay there, quiet, focusing and suddenly say "the 3 of clubs!"... Bring them into your mind: "focus on the color... red... or black... ok, that's easy: black. You were trying to double bluff me, weren't you?" etc...

That's the advice I would like to have heard when I started Smile

Also... what works for one person might not for for another... I think it's fundamental that you're true to yourself and don't try to just do what others do.
Matt Pulsar
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Just a note, in most creative industries including ours the going rate for such tutorial relationships is $100 USD and up. Years ago I did private sessions weekly with Bob Cassidy and that was around a hundred an hour...which for me was a steal.
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David Thiel
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You might want to consider the Mind Gems Brain Trust. We have some wonderful things going on there. You can learn from other performers in our forum, or book professional mentor sessions with our Faculty. Information is below.

David
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www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
John C
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Soooo, is anyone going to help him.

Dervish, PM me if you get no offers.
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Mindpro
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Yes, several have offered, but he seems to not be returning to the two threads he started the same day.
dervish
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I apologise for the delay in replying. I had the flu.

I really really appreciate everyone's comments, suggestions and support!

I find the distinction between mentalist and magician doing mental tricks quite interesting and useful. Thanks Mindpro for your opinions there.

I have had a some good offers for coaching via PM so I am very pleased.

It's really such a blessing to have a community of experts / passionate people out there, willing to help Smile

Geoff
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Can I hire you for $30USD/hour to train me in mentalism over skype? (11 Likes)
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