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EvilClown New user Richmond, VA 74 Posts |
I do not buy a lot of downloads in magic. I have a strong preference for physical media when it is available. But the reality of most electronic content that is delivered on-line, is that what you really receive is a license to use the content. In other words, you may have purchased the rights to access the content and even to store it on your device, but you may not have purchased ownership of that content in the way you might think. And that license, in all likelihood, does not permit you to transfer the copy. There is a pretty good explanation of this in this Los Angeles Times article.
http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/......ory.html |
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts |
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On Aug 27, 2018, kaubell wrote: Brilliant argument. Love it. Gives plenty of "nodes" to reflect about. kaubell, may I ask you if you are a professional magician and earn a living out of it? Thanks!
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts |
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On Aug 27, 2018, Mindpro wrote: Looks like there are 4 pages of people willing to discuss the phylosophy behind this question, Sir .
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts |
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On Aug 27, 2018, EvilClown wrote: I totally agree. What is not totally known nowadays is that with a book or a DVD it's exactly the same. You don't *OWN* the content. You only own the media. Not much of a difference, after all, do you agree? I remember someone mentioned about owning the DVD=owning an empty file=owning the paper of the book. This is utterly correct and in all the above cases you are not free to do with the content whatever you like (hence the unauthorized renting, lending, public performance etc. disclaimer). I am not entirely sure this is enough to determine if two individuals cannot share a download, while they can share buying a book.
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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Vater Araignee Regular user MI 172 Posts |
I have been thinking about this trying to find the reason as to why two people splitting the cost would be unethical. I can tell you exactly why a government funded library is highly unethical, but not two people sharing in the cost of dvds, books, lecture notes, downloads etc etc.
If I sell my secret to Teller on how to produce virtually unlimited amounts of ping-pong balls from the hands: Does Penn have to pay me too? Is Teller obligated to do his best to prevent Penn from finding out how it is done if he hasn't payed me? If Penn learns without paying me, is he obligated to never perform it until he pays me? The answers are simply no, no, and no. So why would the situation in the OP be unethical? It is odd how people think force is ethical and volunteerism is unethical.
"Good enough never is." - Vater Araignee
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts |
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On Nov 10, 2018, Vater Araignee wrote: I like this, Vater. And thank you very much for bringing your valuable contribution to this thread. Still I cannot think of one single reason why your thought could be considered wrong. I'll keep thinking .
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts |
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On Nov 10, 2018, Vater Araignee wrote: Your ping-pong ball trick is your signature routine, highly revered, and people have been asking you for the secret for years. But for 15 years you've kept the secret to yourself because it has made your career. But now your career is slowing down, and you need to make some money. So you decide to sell it to a few select people, one of whom is Teller. Teller pays you $50 for the secret. Teller then "shares the cost" by selling the secret to me for $40. I sell it to Andrea for $30. He sells it to Evil Clown for $25. Evil Clown sells it to MindPro for $20. MindPro sells it to Kaubell for $15. Kaubell recoups his entire investment by selling it to kcbeave for $15. Kcbeave sells it to Black Hart for $10. Black Hart sells it to Wizard of Oz and Paul Position for $5 each. Wizard and Paul both sell it to five other people for $1 apiece. Included in those ten people is jimgerrish, and Jim being who he is and figuring that it's pretty much in the public domain considering how many people have "shared" the secret, posts the secret in answer to a question in the Secret Sessions forum here, and 1,136 readers learn the secret there. Now 1,156 people have learned the secret to your career-making, signature routine that you offered for sale because you are in dire need of money, and you've made a whopping fifty bucks off all this "cost sharing." You file for bankruptcy, and while you're waiting for the judge to hear your case you find 15 incredibly bad YouTube "Secret Revealed!" videos sharing your prize routine with the world. Depressed and broke, you go home, take all the pills in your medicine cabinet, and as you lose consciousness for the final time, you pen a Tragic Café post warning all creative magicians about the perils of selling their work. Then...lights out for you...as Methy The Clown completely screws up your trick at a party for 6-year olds, who all now know exactly how the trick that made your career is done, and it spreads through the first grade like wildfire and becomes as ubiquitous as "I Got Your Nose," and everyone in the world does it, but tragically no one remembers whose trick it is anymore.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts |
This thread is why the real secrets, the really good work by the seasoned pros, is never sold. It is passed down orally from pro to upcoming pro, and guarded jealously. I learned a "real secret" recently. I didn't have to pay for it, but I had to fly to Vegas and be there in person to learn it, and I had to sign a nondisclosure agreement. These real secrets are jealously guarded and you will never learn them, precisely because of this thread. Because people like you feel they can share them with others to "cost share," and then very quickly the seasoned pro loses all control over a secret developed over a lifetime and sold for money he will never see.
Don't cost share. It's wrong. Respect the work. Respect the creator.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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Vater Araignee Regular user MI 172 Posts |
Danaruns,
You are describing tiered copy sell, not cost sharing and you are doing it in a way to illicit feelings rather than a path of logic leading to the conclusion you want. Just because one feels something is wrong does not make it so. I feel like the super majority of magic literature, videos and acts shouldn't exist due to plagiarism, but feeling something doesn't make the feeling right and I know it. I can make an emotional argument for a creator not getting payed, one I am personally connected to and we hear from many other magicians. Do you think all those troubled youths payed every creator who had something sitting in a magic store with a kindly proprietor? We also have "How much of what you know originated with you or the person that taught you?" Odds are good that at some point, some of your knowledge had a living creator that didn't gift it to you and you didn't pay them for. Is it different because it is an oral library? Anyway, logically show how, not only is a government funded library immoral but a private library, team library and a personal library that you allowed someone else to brows is too. It doesn't matter how they are unethical, just that each one in some way is, defending any one of these defends them all as far as magic is concerned. side note: My mentors didn't just teach me tricks, they also taught me realities like "The only way to guarantee a trick stays a secret is to never perform it where anyone can see it." And no, that is not a justification to run around blabbing it, it is just a fact.
"Good enough never is." - Vater Araignee
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