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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Derren Brown » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kou
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I love the effect that Derren Brown performs -- the one where he is able to unfailingly guess in which hand a spectator has a coin.
David de Leon
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Like so many others I too love Derren’s routine! If you haven’t already, you can listen to a radio performance of it (as well as some other stuff) at:

http://derrenbrown.150m.com/

I hope you listened to the clip! (I had some problems with the link a moment ago when I tested it.) The way Derren ”reasons” about the location of the coin is just great! To my mind, the reasoning that goes along with the location of the coin is more fun than the actual success of the experiment! It sounds sooooo convincing that you would think that this ”all” there is to the trick. Imagine that: a routine that looks better because the seemingly transparent method!

As for the trick at MagicSmith's I really don’t like the sound of it. I admit that I haven’t got it, and that I haven’t seen it demonstrated, but requiring your spectator to handle the ”small lucky charm (a quarter size disk with a smiley face sticker on it)” just seems unnecessarily fishy to me. Sure, in the right hands (!), and with the right patter, the special disk might fade into the background, but why bother when you could use an ordinary (or perhaps not so ordinary) coin?

Check out the books recommended in one of the other threads at The Cafe (books by Fulves, Banachek, Minch and Mark), I know I will:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/archive1/vie......5&15
swamigimmick
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David,

if you enjoyed listening to Derren Brown, why don't you watch him perform on his Mind Control page below: -

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/M/mindcontrol/

This site is owned by Channel 4, the TV company that produced his three Mind Control shows.

This site has quite a lot in it and it may keep you occupied for a few hours.

You will need Real Player installed to watch the video clips.

Regards,
Eric.
Corinius
Mentalist and Hypnotist

"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him discover it within himself." - GALILEO
David de Leon
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Thank you Erik for that tip!

I’ve been to the site before and there is some really lovely stuff there (it annoyed me somewhat that he just GIVES AWAY some of my favorite stuff from Pure Effect)!
shrink
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Quote:
On 2002-07-14 15:05, David de Leon wrote:
Thank you Erik for that tip!

I’ve been to the site before and there is some really lovely stuff there (it annoyed me somewhat that he just GIVES AWAY some of my favorite stuff from Pure Effect)!


I think that sets up the audience to accept the other more fantastic things he does.

Think he knows what he's doing. When it gets to the more amazing experiments which prob use tricks even gimmicks , the audience believe he is doing it with pure skill. I think its probably a very entertaining way to misdirect people. As far as I can see he hasn't really exposed any of his real stuff in any of his products which is what hes making his name on? It's mabey something you should consider exposing some stuff in order to make other things you do look like great skill rather than tricks.

Smile
David de Leon
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Shrink, I think you are right about Derren’s motivation for slipping some of his secrets. It certainly makes him look genuine! I also think he was probably right to do so, but was lamenting the fact that my favourite tid bits were given away.
shrink
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Youl be suprised how little impact that will make on the general public. Unless you have a real interest in what he does most people won't even think about going there let alone read it.
Paradox
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The DB Coin In Hand business sounds like something I've been doing along the same lines, using a small stone with the Japanese "KI" symbol engraved on it. Was going to publish it soon. Don't have any idea how DB does his routine or whether it's in any way similar to mine or not. I can tell you this, though---mine doesn't use a "gimmick" per se; & is really based on an old principle you all probably know. If Bascom was still alive, it'd be in a future issue of MAGICK.
I'm an old timer & not all that familiar with some of the newer guys, but that's changing. To me, a beginner should study mentalism first, because its basic principles of presentation work for any kind of magic & it'll also force the beginner to realize the distinction between mentalism & mental magic.
Sorry I got on a soapbox here. This stuff probably belongs on another topis.
David de Leon
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Mr Paradox, were would we find this ”old principle” on which you base your routine? I would like to do the trick and I’m currently trying to collect all possible sources. Do you know if it’s anything like those described by Fulves, Banachek, Minch or Mark?

By the way the using ”a small stone with the Japanese "KI" symbol engraved on it” sounds endlessly better than the ”small lucky charm (a quarter size disk with a smiley face sticker on it)” marketed by MagicSmith (the item that sparked this thread).
David de Leon
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The coin-in-hand routine is lovely, but what if you could do the same thing just playing rock-paper-scissors !!! To win consistently at this would be scary !

Any ideas for a method (other than wit and psychology)? Gimmicked hands, hypnosis and rubber bands are allowed.
Gary Alford
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Rock-paper-scissors: Derren did this in one of his mind control specials. He could win lose or draw at the spectators request, even with his back turned! Very cool. I heard a rumour of subconscious suggestion with hand movements prior to the first round, but then again it could be very lifelike animotronic spectators.
christopher carter
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I recall once hearing that Max Maven had a routine of this sort. I don't know if it was ever published, however.

--Christopher Carter
David de Leon
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If only they would air Derren Brown’s TV-shows in Sweden, were I live! Unless I get a hold of them soon I will continue to reinvent his stunts (coarse and clumsy version of them, of course). I have read his books and seen ”The Devil’s Picture Book”, but not the stuff that’s generating all the hype.
thiago
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Hi Folks

I´ve just bought this item from magic smith. I already know the workings behind it.
As soon as I get it I´ll post a review.

Thiago
David de Leon
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That’s great Thiago, I’m looking forward to reading your review!

I’m especially curious to hear whether the ”small lucky charm” can be made to look like something else and/or exchanged for some other item.
Platt
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Sounds like the perfect piece of magic. It certainly gets you thinking.

Then again, so did "Zinger." If it were as clean as described, I'm curious as to why they wouldn't have a video demo. I think I'll wait for your review on this one.
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
Skitch
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Kou, Ihav A Devilish Deception by Jerry Somerdin and I think its an amazing trick!!! There are endless routines you can do with it and how you can present it.
§kitch
gibby357
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There is a technique for doing the "which hand is the coin etc. in" mentioned in Karl Fulves' "Self-Working Mental Magic". I have not tried it but if the method is sound, then
it can be a knock out effect.

Gibby
David de Leon
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I’m trying to collect all the information I can on the hand-in-coin trick (hence the insistent posting from me on the topic). Lots of people at The Cafe (and elsewhere) have been extremely helpful. A big thank you to you all!

What I want to do is to get a reasonable gimmick (or three) to use as support whilst I practice the more psychological methods.

Here is a summary of sources gathered so far:

Banacheck has three methods in his ”Psychological Subtleties” (p. 75 and p. 77).

Fulves has a couple of methods in ”Self-Working Mental Magic” (p. 1 and p. 2).

There is supposedly a method(s) in Minch’s ”Mind Melds” and Richard Mark has a version in two of his books (I don’t know the names of the books in question).

In addition, Derren Brown (notoriously), Roger Curzon, Bob Cassidy and Ted Karmilovich are all said to have methods, but I don’t think these are published (please correct me if I’m wrong).

Mr Paradox, a visitor here at The Cafe, mentioned Bascom as the originator of ”an old principle you all probably know” and I’m trying to track this down.

I have a version given to me by a non magician/mentalist which will fool children and dogs, and I have struck on a little psychological subtlety that I will share with you when I gain access to the RESTRICTED parts of The Cafe.

As for commercially available gimmicks there is ”Devilish Deception” by Somerdin, the gimmick that started the present thread. Thiago has promised us a review when he gets his. Apparently there is also a gimmick by Charles Gaucci (sp?) called ”Eye to Eye”.
Platt
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I just dug out my Fulves book on mentalism. The first method, although very cool, is far from 100% accurate. And the second method is the kind of trick you've probably attempted as a toddler(read: ridiculously obvious method).

So, with that said, I have three questions:

Is the Brown effect a gimmick or simply a manuscript/ungimmicked coin?

Is it 100% accurate?

Is it something that someone with half a brain could figure out say? For instance, my dog?
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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