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David de Leon Elite user Sweden 418 Posts |
Platt, you will be surprised how effective the first Fulves method can be (that is the more psychological of the two methods), especially if you combine it with other techniques. As for the second method. Yes, I too would hesitate to rely on it, but perhaps it can be used in combination with other methods, making it less obvious. For the sake of argument, what if you set things up to use the second method, but on those instances when you realise that the first method is sufficient, you don’t reveal the coin in your hand, but name the spectators hand or point to it. [Sorry to be cryptic, but I’m just following the rules.]
As for Brown’s method, there is no manuscript or gimmick to buy. It is a piece that he performs. It is, however (but this is hearsay) accurate and there have been no reports of dogs figuring it out. |
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Platt Inner circle New York 2012 Posts |
Just about everything in a magic store is a rip-off of something. Unfortunately that's how everything in the world, magic no exception, evolves. Sure, some rip-offs are more blatant than others but everyone does it. The pen thru anything has been marketed by dozens of companies with the most minor of changes. Did they all rip Cornelius off? If you think so, you must also believe Cornelius ripped off an old Tenyo creation.
Then there's the inventions that everyone has gotten their fingers on without changing a thing: Linking Rings, thumb tips, Copper Brass Silver sets, invisible deck, and hopping halves just to name a few. Do you think any of the current companies marketing these effects invented them? Do you think royalties are going to the inventor? Do you think you might own any of these effects? As a creative writer, I too don't like the idea of ripping someone off. But it's happening all around us. To anyone who thinks buying Devilish Deception from Jerry Sumerting is sinful, please, take a good look at your magic collection.
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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gibby357 Veteran user The Woodlands, TX 344 Posts |
Well said Platt. I can certainly understand if a person wants to patronize one over the other due to allegience (sp) or knowing the person. But, You see it everyday, someone markets an effect and there are already 4 other versions to choose from. What you pay for in essence is not the idea or premise but the style of the person putting it out. I once bought the same effect twice. It had a different name and how it was described was different and guess what? Even though it was the same effect in essence, I liked the second version or the second idea better than the first. I neither condone nor condemn but guys, the world of magic is what it is...
Gibby |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
Quote:
'Twas written: Alas, this sort of "Don't make me think about ethics" viewpoint only encourages those who would make profit at the expense of the originators. The discussion here is not about who invented the linking rings or the thumb tip... those are just red herrings. The issue is whether or not it is ethical to offer for sale a knock-off of a newly-released effect that uses an extremely clever new principle. More importantly (as it's not possible to prevent such things from occurring), the issue is whether or not it's appropriate to support the purveyors of such activities by sending them money. Clearly, people have widely differing ethical standards in such matters. This is one of the reasons that members of the PEA (an organization that takes ethical considerations quite seriously) regularly choose to release their best stuff only within the group. Ethical violations should be no more acceptable within the magical community than they are outside of it. Dismissing ethical concerns because the world "is what it is" doesn't fly in my book. ... Doug
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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woodmaven Regular user 102 Posts |
I love this Cafe'; Everyone is so much help, ONE PROBLEM : I can't bring myself to logout and get back to my dayjob ---- I'm addicted to the Cafe'!!!!
- Britt
Friends are our chosen family.
- Britt - |
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saglaser Loyal user Champaign, IL 248 Posts |
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we had all out clothes stolen out of our convertible while we were in Danville, Illinois on our honeymoon. I'm very sorry to hear that, Jerry, but it causes me, as a guy who lives just a few miles away and knows the town, to ask just why anyone would want to honeymoon in Danville???? |
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jecar Veteran user 358 Posts |
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On 2002-07-27 03:01, saglaser wrote: Well, it's my wife's fault. We headed out on our honeymoon and stopped at Indianapolis for the first night. After that, we went to Cincinnati and the next day, we went to lunch and she had a couple of drinks and got pretty tipsy. I wanted to go to Chicago, but she didn't. We drove back to Indianapolis and was going to stay at the same place we spent the first night and decide for sure where we would go. Well, while feeling pretty good from her drinks, she happened to see a sign that said, "Danville, Illinois X..miles". She said, "Why don't we go there?" I tried to explain to her that Danville wouldn't have anything that we'd be enterested in. But she had made up her mind and the only thing I could do was to make it halfway fair for me, by writing out 5 slip with places to go to, and letting her draw the slip. SHe was agreeable to that. But wouldn't you know it, she drew Danville. When we got there, we signed in at the Wolfe Hotel and went to a movie that night. She finally realized that this has not been a good idea, so we decided to leave our clothes in the car, since we'd be leaving the first thing in the morning. Oh! Did I mention that I was driving a convertible? Well, the thief slit the top and stole all our clothes. Jerry .. |
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Tony Razzano Inner circle South River, NJ 1600 Posts |
Jecar wrote:
"But she had made up her mind and the only thing I could do was to make it halfway fair for me, by writing out 5 slip with places to go to, and letting her draw the slip. SHe was agreeable to that. But wouldn't you know it, she drew Danville. " You should have forced one or used a billet switch....I AM disappointed!!!! Best regards, Tony Razzano
Best regards,
<BR>Tony Razzano, Past President, PEA Winner of the PEA"s Bascom Jones and Bob Haines Awards |
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Ray Haddad Regular user Mansfield Center, Connecticut 151 Posts |
Jerry,
Next time do a billet switch when she selects a slip from the bag. What were you thinking? Also, a honeymoon is a terrific place to be without clothes. I don't see a real problem here. Best, Ray |
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David de Leon Elite user Sweden 418 Posts |
Here is a possible follow up to the coin-in-hand trick that I came up with this morning:
After having demonstrated your prowess at correctly guessing which hand the spectator is holding your coin in, you suggest that they try it on you. You tell them that it’s just a question of relaxing and trusting their instincts (or some such). They try it and turn out to be just as adept as you were! How? I don’t know yet. I thought I would use two coins and find a way to display the non-selected hand empty! I don’t have the proper mechanics for this yet, but posted a query on the coin manipulation part of The Cafe: Click Here! |
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Jim Reynolds Elite user Special Guest 431 Posts |
Not sure if I exposed a method or not. So when in doubt; edit out.
Besides, I think Michael Sibbernsen's idea is better than mine. |
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MichaelSibbernsen Special user Omaha, NE 513 Posts |
So not to discuss methods, the "solution" that was here has been removed. If anyone cares to see it, I can PM it to you.
As Necromancer said in the next post, my solution is good only once, and because of that,would be seen as a 50/50 chance. With that in mind, I would actually use this premise in the presentation. When they get it right, you comment "did you read my mind / body language, or were you just lucky?- I guess we will never know." Then give them the coin for further "good luck". This way there is a little mystery, a souvenir, and of course the continued impossibility of seeing you do it 3-4 times in a row. |
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
Hey there, David --
The power of the "audience member chooses the correct hand" plot resides largely in the ability of the participant to beat the odds, not just once, but consistently. Michael's approach is certainly workable for a single try, but probably not repeatable (that modified Ramsey Subtlety just won't convincing the second or third time). For this reason, I'd recommend checking out the repeatable, instantly reset, no-sleight-of-hand solution on Mark Strivings' Walk Around Mentalism (WAM!) video, which is available at floraco.com. Best wishes
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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jecar Veteran user 358 Posts |
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On 2002-07-28 22:57, Trinity wrote: I don't think the billet switch was even invented way back then. Anyway, I wasn't into magic at that particular time, but maybe that was the underlying thought that eventually got me interested in magic, years later. Jerry .. |
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John Smetana ???? - 2009 499 Posts |
Just a reminder that methods shouldn't be discussed here guys.Much to easy to access.
Best thoughts, John Smetana |
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jecar Veteran user 358 Posts |
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On 2002-07-28 23:33, Ray Haddad wrote: NEXT TIME??? What are you talking about? I don't plan on getting married again, Ray! Quote:
If I recall correctly, there wasn't a problem in that regard. Jerry .. |
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David de Leon Elite user Sweden 418 Posts |
Thanks for the video recommendation Necromancer!
An alternative to using the Ramsey Subtlety in order to show your hand empty (which I think was suggested by Michael before his post was removed) would be to classic palm the coin in the supposedly empty hand and use it to point at the selected hand as you open it. Provided that the handling is natural this should be effective. [I’m a little unclear exactly what constitutes exposure at The Cafe, so my apologies if the above suggestion is too explicit. I am using terminology (i.e. ”Ramsey Subtlety” and ”classic palm”) which I assume are not clear to laymen. However, please remove this post if I have transgressed and if so my apologies.] |
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Fon Regular user London, UK 200 Posts |
Two coins, two ravens, both ravens retract but only one with a coin??
Fon
Always thinking..........?
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David de Leon Elite user Sweden 418 Posts |
Fon, sounds like a lot of machinery for this effect and you want to be able to REPEAT the feat several times (I don’t have a Raven -- or even two -- but I assume it is not easy to reset?).
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Scott Cram Inner circle 2678 Posts |
Quote:
After having demonstrated your prowess at correctly guessing which hand the spectator is holding your coin in, you suggest that they try it on you. You tell them that it?s just a question of relaxing and trusting their instincts (or some such). They try it and turn out to be just as adept as you were! If you want to show that the spectator is correct every time, how about doing just the opposite of what Docc Hilford does on his Confidence Man Video? On that video, he opens his con man show with a routine in which the spectator gets it WRONG every time. Considering the simple method, it wouldn't take much to turn this into the spectator getting it right. This method seems to be best for doing it 3 times in a row. You could get away with 4, but that would be pushing it. After reading of ideas like sleights and dual ravens, I couldn't help but smile. When you see how simple and straightforward Docc's solution is, you'll agree that magicians can sometimes think too much. ;) |
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