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levitate Veteran user 319 Posts |
Hey,
I've actually been doing coin magic for quite some time now. I've found Modern Coin Magic to be an integral part of my knowledge in coin magic thus far, from a technical standpoint. I didn't care for most of the routines in the book, especially after I got Sankey's Revolutionary Coin Magic video. I absolutely love that tape. I've dabbled in Roth's stuff, but like Bobo, I've found much of it to be dull. Roth is very good at teaching, and his tecnique is absolutely incredible, but I just didn't care for much of anything in his book. There are a few routines I really like, but not many. Afer looking at some other stuff, the closest things to the Sankey tape I've found are Kam's POS 3, the Dean Dill dvds, and the coin magic on Cultural Exchange 2. I guess what I'm asking, is where can I find good, interesting, coin material from a source that focuses on coins? When I say "interesting" I don't necesarily mean out of the ordinary (although many effects on Sankey's tape fite that bill). I don't care to learn any more of the same basic stuff - I know plenty of ways to do the coins across, and am quite content with the methods I know. To name some types of effects I am interested in: spellbound, matrixes, shadow coin variants, multi coin transpos, etc. I have finally fallen in love with coins, after only doing cards for such a long time. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Michael |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
There are gems to be found in the older books. Modern Coin Manipulation has some surprises once you get past the backpalm stuff that was in vogue at the time. There are more items in Greater Magic and even in the Scot book Discoverie of Witchcraft.
There were few specialists in coins until Al Goshman and David Roth. This means that the real gems will be found in the working repertoires and collections from the talented performers. Since you've stated a preference for Jay Sankey's style of performance... and his style is brisk ... I will pass on recommending any of Ramsay's work, or my work. You mention that you found the material in Expert Coin Magic dull. Have you seen the Roth set pieces performed?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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levitate Veteran user 319 Posts |
Sankey's tape has definately appealed to me. I find routines to be powerful and interesting. Don't forget about Dean Dill though.
About Roth, are you talking about the end section of the book, with effects like "The Sleeve" , and that thing with the globe? If so, I liked those a lot, but as I remember, they don't seem to fit my style, and they take a lot of prep (and a table) which isn't condusive to the situations I typically perform in. I'm definately going to take a look at Goshman's work, but I'm not familiar with yours. I've definately heard of your name, but I don't know any of your works, could you elaborate? Thanks for the advice. Michael |
Mike Wild Inner circle NY, PA, TX, MA, FL, NC 1290 Posts |
It's funny that you mention Sankey's Rev Coin Magic. I'm a big Sankey fan myself. Jay took almost all of his inspiration for the effects that he created from the original texts of the masters. He credits Goshman, Roth, Slydini, Vernon, Downs, and many others on Rev Coin Magic, and his other coin projects. I guess what I'm saying is that maybe you should look to doing the same type of thing. Perhaps you're having trouble finding materials that suit your style because you have a unique style that isn't represented in any available material.
As I said, Sankey took classic teachings, bent, buckled, rendered, and reformed them to his own tastes and speed, and created, what I consider anyway, to be a completely new style and approach to magic. That may be the path that your magic is taking you as well Just MHO. All the Best, Mike |
levitate Veteran user 319 Posts |
I doubt my style is that radical, but I'd like to look at some of the orginals anyway. The thing is, when I got Roth's book, it had a lot of great sleights which I readily learned. As for the routines, although he presented several versions of each, they seemed like carbon copies of each other. I.E. the same thing as before only with a shell, or with a folding coin. Maybe it was just me not giving them a chance, and the fact that at the time I didn't have some of the gaffs required, but it seemed to lack variety - especially when I was already comfortable performing other versions of the same effect.
Maybe what I'm looking for is variety. I think for example if you were to watch all the coins across on the sankey dvd, they would look very different. Do the same with Roth, and you are basically seeing the same effect (I can get into more detail if you need to). If I were to present you with a "style" of coins magic, I'd go for visual, fair, and pretty simple looking effects. I don't care for elaborate presentations, as I like to present most effects as they are. Some names of specific works and authors would help. I did a quick search, and found nothing for Ramsay, and nothing coin specific for Goshman (I don't want to buy a book of his and end up with spongeballs). Thanks, Michael |
ftlum Special user Roseville, CA 730 Posts |
Try looking under Andrew Galloway for Ramsay material. He authored Ramsay Classics, Ramsay Legend, and Ramsay Finale. There is also a video he put out that covers Ramsay's work. Additionally, John Carney recently released a DVD on Ramsay's Cylinder and Coins and 3 Coins in a Hat.
Gary Kurtz (Unexplainable Acts; Let's get Flurious (video), etc.) did great work with coins, and has influenced many contemporary coin workers. Dave Neighbors' work is primarily in coins, and he has several booklets to choose from. You might try Reed Mclintock's DVDs and Knucklebuster series for contemporary coin work. Doug Brewer also has good coin work in Unexpected Visitor. I would also consider checking out Kainoa Harbottle's material, especially if you are interested in advanced edge grip work. Also, check out Rune Klan's 3 Pieces of Silver video. I think that might be what you're looking for-- he's got several solid, direct effects. -- Frank |
levitate Veteran user 319 Posts |
I'm still having a difficult time finding the Ramsay stuff. I found one site that sells I believe the video, but that's it.
I've heard many good things about Kurtz, but I cant find a description of the effects in it. I know of flurious, but that's it. Dave Neighbors has some cool looking stuff, I'll ask him for more specifics. I have Reed's dvds, and to say the least, I don't care for them. The knuckle buster series looks more promising, I'll look there. Both Unexpected visitor, and Kainoa's book have caught my attention before, I'll be looking at them more in depth. Rune Klan's video does look promising as well. Just to throw something else in there, how is "Matrix God's Way"? I really appreciate your advice. You have given me plenty to work with for a long time. Thanks again, Michael |
ftlum Special user Roseville, CA 730 Posts |
The ads for Unexplainable Acts say:
Contents include his Hypothetical Possibilities, Inside/Outside, Constant Return, Attraction, Wishful Thinking, Split Disclosure, Body Heat, Four-Fisted, Special Delivery, Orange, Name It, The Anticipator, The Empty Hand, Interchange, Coming Out Ahead, Artistic License, Trio, All Together, Cigar, Mirror Image, and his famous Flurious Coin Routine I saw a couple of new copies of the Ramsay books on eBay, but except for Ramsay Legend, I've not seen them carried by any US dealers. Perhaps others will post a good source. http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/?nd=full&......pt_books I've not seen Matrix God's Way, but I've seen some mixed reviews. That being said, it's still on my "to buy" list. -- Frank |
harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Levitate,
Yes, explore other books, videos, dvd and lectures. Then go back to the basics of Bobo, Buckley, Downs and others. What is old becomes new once again. Just my two liberty half dollars worth. Harris Deutsch Laughologist
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Magic books by post has a website, and was offering the Galloway books on Ramsay.
There are some threads on the café about the classic books in our craft. There are goodies in the Houdin book, and more in Greater Magic. If you have access to the artisans... you might try the gaffed stuff in the back of the Downs book.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Chris "linkster" Watson Special user England 564 Posts |
Magic by Gosh is worth getting, there are a few bits like sponge balls and rising card presentations but most is devoted to coins. Worth while items are :- Toss Vanish, Copper Silver and the Salt and Pepper routine. I have yet to start learning the routines but have read through them several times and it is a masterclass on miss-direction.
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Chris Keppel Special user Kansas City MO 544 Posts |
Another good point Harris, what used to be old is now coming back into style. I have thought I came up with a few new moves and tricks, come to find out they have been around for 100 years. Same with card stuff. People come up with stuff on there own. Who knew a guy 50 years ago came up with the exact same utility move ect.
www.chriskeppel.com
Kepp's Custom Carbon Fiber |
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