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DeeChristopherMagic
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Not to turn this into a thread about magic trailers, as that's another topic for another day; but to close the book on the 'full performance' comments, in this instance, I can tell you that nothing important is missed out of the demo, they'll always shuffle the entirety of the deck and they'll always find the aces without you having do to much of anything at all, aside from weave your script and take your applause.

Videoman's point is a really valid one, and totally true a lot of the time - We need to protect the secret so that you have to learn it the right way.

As editors; it's our job [in the trailer] to give you an accurate representation of the effect, a full pitch on what it is and what can do for you, the reasons that it is a good investment for you and of course some demonstrations of the way it can affect an audience when it is performed for real people in real situations... We also like throwing in some fancy titles here and there to re-iterate important points as it's fun, looks cool and helps to build excitement.

If magic companies were to sell their wares based purely on full performance videos, a vast amount of customers would switch off most of the time. People want (and in this quick moving online culture, need) the important information FAST. Most people don't have the time to sit through full performance after full performance when looking for the next trick or routine they want to put into their act.

What's the effect? why is it good? What kind of situations can it be performed in? If those three questions are answered when I watch a demo, I believe it to be a solid sales video and will demonstrate to the viewer whether it is a purchase that he or she should consider. We try to cram all that info into just a couple of minutes so that you have more time to check out other stuff on Penguin, or get back to your easter egg shopping.

Car commercials don't contain a full demonstration of every feature; they show clips of it looking killer against an awesome backdrop and food commercials certainly don't show you the process that went into making that cake; they show you caramel sauce being slowly drizzled over the item followed by smiling faces. This is simply because you can't experience driving the car or eating the cake through a screen, the same way that you can't experience the magic without being in the moment.

It's always helpful to remember how magic used to be sold, you saw a hand drawn image with a couple of lines detailing the effect in a catalogue. These days we are lucky enough to be able to give you so much more than that, but we also have to contend with the fact that the average person spends less than 20 seconds on a webpage, so if we can't tell the story in the first 10-20 seconds, most prospective buyers will move onto the next thing and could miss out on an amazing product.

Anyway, to move the discussion back to Chris' routine, the real value in this is not only the method, but the many additions, subtleties and the deep thinking that has gone into this routine to take it from a quick trick to a great performance piece.

I must also mention, that while the basic method is discussed early on as a foundation for the rest of the download, the video also contains further ideas from Chris, if you fast-fowarded, chances are you will have missed out a massive amount of really great information. There is also several full live performances in the tutorial and a full studio performance, that way you can see how Chris plays it to different people and how the effect looks in different situations - I felt that the addition of many performances was quite important for this particular project. The minutes add up extremely quickly!
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muse
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Pros and cons, or strictly speaking, cons and pros:

Cons: Penguin Magic emailed me saying "This new mind-blowing card trick using an ORDINARY DECK has pros raving." I take issue with 'ordinary deck', particularly in capital letters. The thrust of the explanation does not justify this. Secondly, as noted above, the video is bloated - the basic teaching is good, but padded out to an at times excruciating degree. A good editor would have been useful to either cut down or re-structure the explanation.

Pros: I like it very much. The trick is simple, but ticks lots of boxes in terms of spectator actions - they genuinely shuffle, cut, choose and can change their minds. And it is, to my mind, a nicely unexpected combination of a 'game' and an ace production. And although overexplaining can be a pain in the neck, it's better than underexplaining. Chris Rawlins comes over well too, with a nicely laid back presentation.

Overall: Worth the money for me, but I'm thankful for 'fast forward'.
ejohn
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I ditto muse. Entertaining, fun and easy to set up and do. Popular gambling theme. A keeper.
EZrhythm
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, Christopher_Rawlins wrote:

And RNK - it's less than $10... I would understand your viewpoint if we were asking $100 or $1000.



That is interesting. Why would it matter how much the effect costs? Either the effect's secrets could be given away with a full performance viewing or it couldn't.
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
Rizzo
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Yea it’s a strange one. On one hand I can agree that after many viewings, perhaps it could be reversed engineered. On the other there are many full performance clips that have never been figured out so I would assume ( could be wrong) that the trailer is what it is for a reason. Other than the write up of the effect, I’m not a fan of the trailer but quite honestly, I see many trailers lately that I can do without. As per write up I like it though.
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RNK
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, EZrhythm wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, Christopher_Rawlins wrote:

And RNK - it's less than $10... I would understand your viewpoint if we were asking $100 or $1000.



That is interesting. Why would it matter how much the effect costs? Either the effect's secrets could be given away with a full performance viewing or it couldn't.


[quote]On Mar 29, 2018, EZrhythm wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, Christopher_Rawlins wrote:

And RNK - it's less than $10... I would understand your viewpoint if we were asking $100 or $1000.



Yes. And if its that good and a fooler an unedited demo should be posted. Other creators have no problem showing unedited video when its a fooler. Heck, some will even show an unedited video when it's not a magician's fooler. And in this instance when the effect is good I will not hesitate to support the creator and buy the effect and reward them for their openness and creativity.


Yes Chris, only $10.00. If I had the money back from all of the "ONLY $10" that turned out to be useless and not what the demo showed I would have a lot of money in my paypal. No disrespect, you seem like a very likable chap. I just have a problem with creators that say this is a magician fooler but cannot show a whole demo video.


Either it's a magician's fooler and that good or it isn't.

RNK
Mb217
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, muse wrote:
Pros and cons, or strictly speaking, cons and pros:

Cons: Penguin Magic emailed me saying "This new mind-blowing card trick using an ORDINARY DECK has pros raving." I take issue with 'ordinary deck', particularly in capital letters. The thrust of the explanation does not justify this. Secondly, as noted above, the video is bloated - the basic teaching is good, but padded out to an at times excruciating degree. A good editor would have been useful to either cut down or re-structure the explanation.

Pros: I like it very much. The trick is simple, but ticks lots of boxes in terms of spectator actions - they genuinely shuffle, cut, choose and can change their minds. And it is, to my mind, a nicely unexpected combination of a 'game' and an ace production. And although overexplaining can be a pain in the neck, it's better than underexplaining. Chris Rawlins comes over well too, with a nicely laid back presentation.

Overall: Worth the money for me, but I'm thankful for 'fast forward'.


Good, fair post here...Smile

I too, above all else, really like the trick. It's pretty simple and easy to pull off with minimal effort. I can see how this is a real fooler and would amaze people to know end. It's a good piece of thinking and makes for a fine presentation. Really, what's not to like? Smile

As to all the talk about the explanation, I would simply suggest to Chris to offer as coin craftsman, John Jurney does with his Casino Chip Coin Coalition...he offers a "Cliff Notes" version to just show the moves with brief explanation, before also offering a longer more involved how & why. Easy enough to do, and gives everyone what they want as to the telling of the effect. Problem solved, and with that the real beauty and power of this fine effect can maybe be better realized as it deserves because really, that's what's most important here. Smile

Very good job, Chris! Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
MitchC
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As I am getting older, I really appreciate maximum impact with minimal effort. This is in that category. NO sleights. Great reactions from the dozen performances so far. If there were a 'download of the year' award I'd easily vote for this ! Easily the best $9.95 I've ever spent. Kudos Chris !
Christopher_Rawlins
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Thank you everybody for the positive words, messages and comments about OCP.

RNK - like I said the trailer is very fair, they really do shuffle everything, they realy do make every single choice and they really are truly surprised at the conclusion of the routine and entertained throughout.

I'm not in the business of giving out free Magic, secrets have to be earned. With friends that's with trust and friendship, with fellow Magicians I am yet to meet, that's a monitary exchange.

Either - you like the sound of the OCP, and the ffect is something you would enjoy performing, or not. Besides that I can't help you.

You of course don't have to buy my downloads, or books, or DVD's in any form.

What I would say is to judge the overall tone of the thread from people that are customers that have made the small purchase.

Apparently my explanation is long, but everyone seem's to very much enjoy the routine and secret.

I do feel that demanding a full performance is unecessary. This is a fooler, but it's also not a freebie.

No disrespect taken and thanks, I am a very nice guy. I appreciate your interest in OCP, and I hope that if you do choose to purchase it that you'll enjoy it.

Either way, best wishes to you.

Christopher
EZrhythm
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, DeeChristopherMagic wrote:
Not to turn this into a thread about magic trailers, as that's another topic for another day; but to close the book on the 'full performance' comments, in this instance, I can tell you that nothing important is missed out of the demo, they'll always shuffle the entirety of the deck and they'll always find the aces without you having do to much of anything at all, aside from weave your script and take your applause.


What you feel is not missing is in fact important to others- By seeing that there is nothing to see if that is the case and making their own decision about the full performance. I can say right now that there is a part of the performance that is missing in the trailer that I would like to see whether or not someone claims it is important or not.

Quote:
Videoman's point is a really valid one, and totally true a lot of the time - We need to protect the secret so that you have to learn it the right way.


Quite understandable.

Quote:
As editors; it's our job [in the trailer] to give you an accurate representation of the effect, a full pitch on what it is and what can do for you, the reasons that it is a good investment for you and of course some demonstrations of the way it can affect an audience when it is performed for real people in real situations... We also like throwing in some fancy titles here and there to re-iterate important points as it's fun, looks cool and helps to build excitement.


Only accurate to a certain point because as like you said you need to protect the secret. A "full pitch" is subject to what one's opinion is of the fullness of it. It is designed to promote sales because after all a producer of an effect who isn't interested in maximizing the full potential of sales and just allows the effect speak for itself doesn't have flashy videos filmed and without a full performance. -Axel Hecklau's, Just a Cup for example.

Quote:
If magic companies were to sell their wares based purely on full performance videos, a vast amount of customers would switch off most of the time. People want (and in this quick moving online culture, need) the important information FAST. Most people don't have the time to sit through full performance after full performance when looking for the next trick or routine they want to put into their act.


They certainly would NOT switch off most of the time. Remember OZ's demo vids on Penguin? Those are what started it all for Penguin and helped them to grow to be what they are today.

Quote:
What's the effect? why is it good? What kind of situations can it be performed in? If those three questions are answered when I watch a demo, I believe it to be a solid sales video and will demonstrate to the viewer whether it is a purchase that he or she should consider. We try to cram all that info into just a couple of minutes so that you have more time to check out other stuff on Penguin, or get back to your easter egg shopping.


Correct on all points there AND for the purpose to maximize sales. Nothing wrong with that but lets look at these points for what they are.

Quote:
Car commercials don't contain a full demonstration of every feature; they show clips of it looking killer against an awesome backdrop and food commercials certainly don't show you the process that went into making that cake; they show you caramel sauce being slowly drizzled over the item followed by smiling faces. This is simply because you can't experience driving the car or eating the cake through a screen, the same way that you can't experience the magic without being in the moment.


Car commercials represent a product that can may be physically experienced, test driven with no cost.
So you are saying that magic can't be experienced by a product trailer? If so, I and multitudes of others would disagree.If you are not saying that then- "Without being in the moment"? This statement is presented in a convoluted way. If another member feels differently, please post your thoughts.

Quote:
It's always helpful to remember how magic used to be sold, you saw a hand drawn image with a couple of lines detailing the effect in a catalogue. These days we are lucky enough to be able to give you so much more than that, but we also have to contend with the fact that the average person spends less than 20 seconds on a webpage, so if we can't tell the story in the first 10-20 seconds, most prospective buyers will move onto the next thing and could miss out on an amazing product.


That is looking at it from a standpoint of "Let's create an experience to MAXIMIZE SALES QUICKER". If it is truly an amazing product then word-of-mouth is your best marketing tool. This is why free samples are given away to reviewers. Those prospective buyers who do move on to the next thing within 20 seconds are quite rare and if the product is, as mentioned before, truly amazing, then they will be back.

Quote:
Anyway, to move the discussion back to Chris' routine, the real value in this is not only the method, but the many additions, subtleties and the deep thinking that has gone into this routine to take it from a quick trick to a great performance piece.


I absolutely agree.

Quote:
I must also mention, that while the basic method is discussed early on as a foundation for the rest of the download, the video also contains further ideas from Chris, if you fast-fowarded, chances are you will have missed out a massive amount of really great information. There is also several full live performances in the tutorial and a full studio performance, that way you can see how Chris plays it to different people and how the effect looks in different situations - I felt that the addition of many performances was quite important for this particular project. The minutes add up extremely quickly!


Because some are expressing that the video was long and draw out or repetitive, it would have been beneficial to provide it in parts.
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
EZrhythm
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, RNK wrote:

Yes. And if its that good and a fooler an unedited demo should be posted. Other creators have no problem showing unedited video when its a fooler. Heck, some will even show an unedited video when it's not a magician's fooler. And in this instance when the effect is good I will not hesitate to support the creator and buy the effect and reward them for their openness and creativity.

Either it's a magician's fooler and that good or it isn't.

RNK


AND some creators even show the gimmick, if there is one involved AND let you download the full explanation tut.
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
EZrhythm
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I am curious in seeing how the specs obtain their individual cards. This was interestingly cut out of the video. I'm not interested for secrets sake but for routine design.
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
Davdo
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I went ahead and bit on this because I liked the premise a lot. Upon first full viewing, however, I caught what was going on. I wouldn't discount this as a magician fooler, though, because I had the advantage of knowing what outcome to expect and the way the demo was shot, there's a flash of something important early on. The reason why I have shared that I got it quickly is to illustrate the simplicity of it all. It's not difficult to wrap your head around, and for those of us that enjoy banter and improvisation, it will be a fun effect to perform. Considering the simplicity, I'd say this is another one of those purchases where I consider the $$ to be a penalty on my own lack of ingenuity. There isn't anything I've never heard of here, but it's the notion to put a few different ideas together that makes this work so well.

Is this a magician fooler? If they knew that the goal was to force them to find the four aces, no way. But if you approach them as normal spectators, I dare say most would be fooled. That said, who the heck is collecting effects for the purpose of fooling magicians?? That line of copy is usually a big turnoff for me.

All in all, this is a nice idea that I will definitely be using and adapting. One critique I will share, though, is that the incredible volume of ribbon spreading in the video made me anxious Smile I get it... It's a tick...

Thanks, Chris.

Dave
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, RNK wrote:
I understand your points Chris and hope you understand that I'm not trying to disrespect you as I do not think you were trying to disrespect me. But I also stand by my statement that if an effect is claimed by the creator to be a true magician fooler a full uncut demo should not be an issue. If its an issue in any way, then my perspective is that it must not be a magician fooler.


So you see no difference in being able to view something once and viewing it a dozen times?
Mb217
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Y'know, thank God, that for most of us that our greater audiences are not magicians. Smile I know for myself that most times I do magic for people, they are typically laymen, and that's a good thing IMHO. Smile With that said, all the little things that may peek a magician's alertness, they most likely will not see, not if you present the effect correctly, casually, and confidently, as I think Chris most certainly does here. That he mentioned that the effect would fool magicians, well, that's mostly because it probably would...just why wouldn't it? I remember feeling so confident with my coin magic that I knew no one, including the absolutely brilliant including Presidents, School Chancellors and astute business men would be none the wiser. And yknow why...Because most like anyone else, despite their fine intelligences, they are mostly like anyone else when it comes to perceiving something off the fly, their thinking mechanisms work mostly the same as anyone else. And sure, magicians know of certain things, but that doesn't mean they can't be fooled, and as a half-decent-at-best coin man, I certainly can be fooled, and darn happy for it. Smile

Anyway, Chris' method here is darn clever, and the presentation delivered quite matter-of-factly off the cuff. And I guess all of us may be of varying levels of ability and competence as to card magic, but I doubt any level would call this effect junk magic, as it really is quality thinking and neat application...Just a darn good card trick that costs nearly nothing to learn.

And perhaps you might not learn anything new here, but most will find it new-enough in various ways that'll make you smile and go "Hmmmmm." Smile Might not be all-the-way something new like the automobile was to the horse & carriage, but it brings together enough cleverness to make it totally worthwhile IMHO. Smile That Chris thought of this and no one else did, well, that's what creativity is all about, little and big. That he thought enough even a bit further to share his creation with others, well, that's sorta what "Magicians Helping Magicians" is all about too, ain't it? Smile

Again, good job Chris and I believe this wonderful work will speak for itself, given even half a chance...It's honestly that good. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
IAIN
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And there's the huge difference between being a watcher and being involved in the presentation...your attention is elsewhere...
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Rizzo
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After trying this out in work today - WOW! Well done Chris. . It’s one of those effects that regardless of how you see the video or not—-including the tutorial, it plays huge on the audience - Recommended.
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Dave the Knave
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In 55 years of being involved with magic, this is the worst card trick I've seen. Bar none. No exaggeration.
IAIN
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Well, after 117 years in magic, I say it's not...
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Dave the Knave
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You're a liar and I'm not.
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