Hey coin guys, I had a question about the retention vanish and video taping. If you watch a video of yourself doing the retention vanish are you able to fool yourself? My video doesn't seem convincing and I don't know if it's just because I know what's going on or if I should just show my little brother and see if I can fool him.

-Dan

It took me a while to know how to do a retention vanish. It is not a knuckle busting move but correct timing is very important here. I practise infront of a mirror and it looks ok to me. I guess you'll have to convince yourself first before doing it for other people.

BTW, this is my 500th post

Does David Roth's RV fool you?
Do you know what he is doing?

See, you knew the answer all along.

jackmh- You bring up an interesting point.
As magicians we tend to be too technical when watching fellow magi perform.
Unfortunately for many, they don't get as 'technical' with themselves.
Good for you in evaltuating yourself!
Now, to get to an answer to your question...
There is now easy way to know if your retention vanish(or any other sleight for that matter) is 'good enough.'
Does it fool your audience? That is the main question.
One more thing, mechanics of a move are very important, what is more important is the routine around the moves.
With a good solid routine, you shouldn't have any problem. Routining will help make everything natural and 'feel' real to your audience.
One last bit to ramble with, if you can 'act' or convince yourself that what you are doing is magic, then your audience will believe it too.
I would go into naturalism, but is there anything at all about picking up a coin and putting into another hand to make it do something?
No.
That's why there must be a routine built around it.

Tom, never seen Roth do it. Everything I know about coin magic I learned from Bobo's (Sounds like a poster). I actually do have Roth's videos on my wishlist, I don't know how I got sidetracked. It was the first magic instructional thing that was every recommended to me and yet I bought all kinds of other stuff and never got it.

Up until today I've had 11 bucks in my checking account. Finally got paid but I gotta pay off my $1,000 Vegas vacation

Jack-

David Roth gives a good tip on the retention pass, something along the lines of he, himself, doesn't really know if he puts the coin in the hand or not. Of course this is embellishment, however, it underscores an important point. The retention pass should look natural to your performing style and closely replicate you really putting the coin in your hand. Here is a thing that helped me that I learned from a Juan Tamariz video. Perform the move about 10-15 times switching between really putting the coin in the hand and a retention pass. When you are done rewind and when you are viewing your tape write down whether you think it is one or the other. When you get good you should be able to fool yourself! Hope it helps!

I agree. In Close-up Illusions, the late great Gary Ouellet explains a sponge ball retention vanish, but the same principles apply here. During your performance, you have to believe you actually placed your coin in your hand. And you should act that way. Look at how your hands would naturally look if you actually did leave the coin there. And make sure that while performing the retention vanish, they look exactly the same.

Cheers,
dchung

I agree. In Close-up Illusions, the late great Gary Ouellet explains a sponge ball retention vanish, but the same principles apply here. During your performance, you have to believe you actually placed your coin in your hand. And you should act that way. Look at how your hands would naturally look if you actually did leave the coin there. And make sure that while performing the retention vanish, they look exactly the same.

Cheers,
dchung

To properly perform a retention vanish, you need to break it down into steps, and slowly practice step by step. As you build up memory, you can do it faster and faster until it looks natural. If you try to do it too fast, you will mix up the steps and do the secret move before it's appropriately hidden. See my knockout coin magic tapes or my move tapes to get a better idea of this. On my move tapes-dvd's, by the way, there are two sections on retention magic, all explained and broken down in step form. - Michael Rubinstein

I was going to mention Dr. Rubinstein's DVD series "encyclopedia of coin slieghts" but he beat me to it!

These are fantastic learning tools, I have learned or should I say re-learned correctly how to do many moves I was performing the wrong way.

Well sometimes it not all in the move. Some times if you throw the coin in the hand that way a couple of times then fake it, even if it wasn't beautiful from them seeing it so many times they will think it is in that hand. Also if you act like the coin is in that hand. Like follow with your eyes. Also you can do moves like the coin flip or back thumb palm to show or hand empty even if your not pointing it out then they will think it is in that hand. So it is hard to watch a tape and be fooled because you wouldn't look for that or go along with it. So you can't tell if it would have worked.

MSR,
I must add as well, that your Encyclo of Coin Sleights is GREAT!. As a hardcore card guy trying to diversify, the tapes are pure gold.