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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Am I the only one bothered by Vic's latest acquisitions? (76 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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burgerinc
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It's sad though that Rick should sell these when he hasn't fulfilled his responsibilities for these items. I don't blame Vic but Rick owes me some of these besides as I previously stated that he offered the booktest rights to me. Awful human being.
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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Quote:
On Apr 10, 2018, Christopher Gould wrote:
I just want to throw my hat into the ring here.

Since moving Alchemy Moon over to Vic's expert care, I can testify directly that he simply has more integrity than anyone else I have met or had dealings with in magic. That this should come into question is frankly 'bizarre'.

I have been aware from some years now just how much one bad apple can taint the whole crop. Every order that I sent out (to customers that were not regulars) was accompanied by a high level of anxiety. People here have been so accustomed to being treated badly, and many have wittingly, or unwittingly supported these practices. In the end the sewer door burst open and the dealers that *really* do not deserve to be questioned get in the firing line.

Now is a time for cleansing and frankly, Vic is the guy with the bucket and mop. I talk to Vic frequently, and I know first hand what his motivations are here, and these motivations are of the highest order. This clean up operation is costing him serious money and what he is doing for the community here is frankly as generous as it is remarkable.

It is now time to put our house into order. As things stand at the moment, the 'troubling' dealers have reaped the rewards for their appalling business models. We are (as far as I can see) left with a situation that we have not had for any years: Honest dealers and honest creators. This is something that we should nurture, not attempt to bring into disrepute.

I totally understand the legacy that come with 'limited editions'. I am guilty of producing these myself (out of exhaustion, rather than as a sales ploy). But this is not as black and white as it may first seem - how much trust did people *really* put into this concept when applied to certain dealers anyhow? If an intellectual property is bought from one dealer (who may have *said* that it was a limited edition) and is now held by another, how does this change the situation? If you buy an intellectual property, you then own it and (as far as I understand) are free to do as you wish with it - regardless of any promises made by the previous vendor. In a broader context - does the very concept of 'limited editions' positively or negatively impact the art in the long term? There are valid arguments to be made from both angles.

As to Vic's handling of the original creators - man, how is there even a question about this? I handed Sanctum over to RR (a story as long as it is uninteresting) many years ago. The first thing Vic did was contact me to GIVE me the IP back - remember, an IP that I did not even own in the first place. So, I will be working on something I have held back on for many, many years - a final Sanctum. I really hope that Vic makes some cash on this. *This* will be the way that all creators that were caught in the mess with Outlaw will now be feeling. Does anyone here suppose for a single moment that any of these creators will feel anything other than relief that someone with such an impeccable reputation will now be handling affairs?

There is a hatchet to be buried here; one that was not forged by any of the dealers who are currently in operation. I would like to see everyone cut Vic some slack here - I know directly how much this cost (and I am not talking just money here!) and I think we should all be a little lenient with this investment. It is also a time to bury the past and look to the future. It is my sincere hope that all those who have been wronged in the past find a legal settlement to their disputes. Then it is time to move on - time to once again celebrate the creative minds and good business practices that are now the norm, rather than the exception.

[Disclaimer - Vic has no idea that I am writing this, or what the content is - I speak for myself and (I would hope) for all creators and members of community who want to see us now move forward.]


BRAVO! Christopher, eloquently written. Vic (other creators) have a zero, none, nadda obligation to uphold lies told by Rick. If they chose to do so it is out of a total dedication to the community and you should support them. I deal only with the current dealers. Vic Nadata, Bill Montana, and Dan Baines.
Al Desmond
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I want to throw my hat in the ring in regards to Vic's integrity.

I have been part of the Gemini product line for about seven months now, with my selection of cribs for his popular book tests.

He's been very fair about the pricing, he made very fair arrangements in regards to what he pays me and what he keeps and he pays almost as fast as he makes a sale.

In regards to RCP's opinion on collectibles, I don't think the value of an item has anything to do with the fact that there are millions of people out there.

There are not millions of bizarre performers and we like to keep these treasures to ourselves.

The value is in what we give the prop, and has no bearing on the open market.
burgerinc
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I have had good dealings with all. If I wasnt clear before, I have no issues with Vic.
Darkness
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Who thinks Vic needs anyone testifying to his reputation in this micro community? Put up your hand!

That's what I thought... We all know he's a good guy. Or do you believe there are that many new people who need to be red alerted? As if we are growing in numbers leaps and bounds. You can look at the sticky at the top of the forum to get a list of top shelf reputable vendors or just ask someone before you buy if you really must. It's not an issue, it never was.

Why is there always a public knee jerk reaction (on both sides) to issues that are not even problems? Ones that are simply solved with a private email or just ignore the thread? Yes, the communication was not entirely clear as Vic confirmed. But it didn't warrant a public broadcast all points bulletin.

This is one reason forums are dying, people see what is really important to some (not just this issue), and it's a turn off. And our art is turning into, well, collectors art for the most part. Driven by the coveted COA's and escalating investment potential. Giving COA's more value then they are worth. It's driving a hyped, false market which is good for no one (and terrible for starving artist performers who want to buy it to actually use it!). So much for the performance art side of things on these limited run items, as most will live in the dark. I'm generalizing but not too far off from the reality, I believe.

BTW Outlaw COA's (and COA's in general) have little to no value. Enjoy the props, and don't feed the second hand, over inflated, market prices. COA's are partially to blame for turning these items into $$$ collector bait (it's out of control just look at book prices). Even if you didn't have a COA, you actually think that lowers the value or greatness of a prop and you won't be able to sell it down the road? Who cares you're "collecting" it! And if you are buying to resell then you are not doing the community a favor and there is little sympathy. I wish COA's didn't exist, they are poison for all the reasons stated. You can only make so many hand made props before you have to stop. The low unit numbers attract collectors and we just have to live with it (when in Rome play the game I guess). We are not as underground as we think we are.

And count your lucky stars your name isn't Rick.

Signed
"The other" Rick
Delimbeau
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Brynmore14
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Vic is one of the reasons The Roxanne Effect was such a success for me. He was incredibly supportive and asked nothing in return. I agree with Darkness in saying that those of us who know Vic, personally or professionally, know he's a stand up guy without a doubt.
252life
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Yeah, Vics a saint and should be canonized ASAP.

Anyway, weren't pre orders of the new Luna supposed to come with a "ward key"?
Maybe I misread the offer way, way, way, back when the order was placed.
Otherwise, when the product did finally arrive, months later, it was absolutely 100% ok.
Even without the key.
I'll probably just go to a hobby store, and make a stand in for a few dollars.
But, it's really just a passing curiosity at this point, so no biggie either way.

Hope everyone's having a great day Smile
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
Merlinsmagic
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It was for the 1st 20 pre orders got keys.

I for 1 applaud Vic for doing what he did & know that whatever reason he did what he did was for the best of all & at his expense. The only thing that bothered me was that Ricks business practice gone wrong seems to have people so wound up & when someone like Vic rescues these effects his intentions are questioned.....people like Vic I commend & whole heartedly thank that he did what he did for us & the original creators that lost alot.
After reading Prof & Chris's posts, its became clearer as to the integrity that Vic has had trying to believe & help Rick until the end result was worse than the Titanic sinking.
I am a collector & am starting to more use these limited number effects more now, yes we pay good money for limited & low produced items & I love that I don't see these effects plastered all over youtube by kids !!
The whole COA thing has goods & bads, I have purchased effects that the seller lost the coa & am still happy being able to purchase a 2nd hand effect I missed out on, they still command money as they are limited coa or not. Some of us care others don't & I know that even if we can't trust what Rick says that Vic will look into & not produce more than Rick claimed he would.

Vic you explained yourself here & even apologized for not being more on point about your newsletter you sent about your acquisitions, your a gentleman among us & I support what you do or will (or will not do) with these that you are acquiring from Rick & that you even are giving some back to rightful owners & creators that lost out on they're dealings with outlaw.

Its sad in general to see a business like outlaw with fantastic effects go the way it has, but in reality most of them were the ideas,creations & built by others & taken advantage of by Rick......

Vic you keep on doing what you do, if I had a magic dollar it would say "in Vic we trust" (lol). You have done a great service to us all by having these awesome creators now apart of Gemini Artifacts & back into offering what they do best, crazy awesome ideas & effects for US & our love of bizarre & in ways we don't know.

I can understand that a few may have taken what was said in Vic's newsletter in concern because of Ricks/outlaws history as of past & late, but this is Vic guys, when has he done anyone wrong & ditched on us as did Outlaw/Rick....?

My 2 cents
Wizard of Oz
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I've lauded Vic's skill and ethics in the past, but shall again as they cannot be stressed enough. We are lucky to have him.

Here are some of the very basic but priceless business practices Vic adheres to that make him shine:

Courteous and respectful
Timely communicator
Delivers what he promises
Only offers a product when it is available
Stands by his offerings
Tells you on his website when an item is NOT available. I cannot tell you how good it makes me feel to see "Sold Out" on a magic website which I frequent, and respect. First, it reassures me that I am one of many realizing the value of what this merchant has to offer, and everyone likes to back a winner. Second, I am not sending money for a product I will not see for weeks, months, even years later...or never at all. Or more fairly comparing to the magic business in general, avoiding the dreaded "Back Ordered" we so often see on a receipt from a magic supplier. That infuriates me. It is essentially a big "F.U. sucker! You spent money on something we don't even have yet."

But most of all, Vic is trusted and respected. Those words are not earned quickly or easily. And the words "Caveat emptor" have no relevance here.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
DrTodd
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I was very pleased and honoured to work with Vic on the new Luna edition, which is vastly improved from the previous editions. His attention to detail amd thought processes are fantastic, as are his professionalism, customer service, and friendliness.
Mr Timothy Gray
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I'm a big fan of what Vic is doing over at Gemini, but this kind of thread is EXACTLY the reason why I hardly visit the Café and the Spooky forum anymore. Endless chat and hype about 'limited edition' props, the frenzy to buy up said props, and the perpetuation of an imaginary market.

I can't support it any longer. It isn't artistically fulfilling. I have shows to perform.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray

Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986
Winks
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And your point is? No one forces you to read these threads.
weepinwil
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Quote:
On Apr 19, 2018, Mr Timothy Gray wrote:
I'm a big fan of what Vic is doing over at Gemini, but this kind of thread is EXACTLY the reason why I hardly visit the Café and the Spooky forum anymore. Endless chat and hype about 'limited edition' props, the frenzy to buy up said props, and the perpetuation of an imaginary market.

I can't support it any longer. It isn't artistically fulfilling. I have shows to perform.


I would like to say you'll be missed but I've never heard of you or seen you on this thread. Hope your shows do well.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
greerj
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Quote:
On Apr 19, 2018, Mr Timothy Gray wrote:
I'm a big fan of what Vic is doing over at Gemini, but this kind of thread is EXACTLY the reason why I hardly visit the Café and the Spooky forum anymore. Endless chat and hype about 'limited edition' props, the frenzy to buy up said props, and the perpetuation of an imaginary market.

I can't support it any longer. It isn't artistically fulfilling. I have shows to perform.


I love the Café. It has posts that are informative, helpful, strange, annoying and sometimes downright maddening, but I have never found it to be artistically fulfilling. I'm not a performer, though, so perhaps that is the reason others read it.
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