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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Rob, what do you think of the stack? I've not got mine yet. It sounds like it will be good, though. I understand learning the original, but I'm not so sure though. All the feints and such Ramsey ployed, I don't know are necessary for me. But what is an available text resource for the routine, and I'll check it out?
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
I, too, am interested in what Jake is offering out of curios.
Anyone have a performance video of this? |
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Rob Mencarini New user 56 Posts |
Joshua, I couldn't be happier with the stack. With a little immagination many things are possible and it is beautifully made. I agree that you should learn the original Ramsay handlings as a student, but then you are probably ready to make the routine your own by personalizing it. You should also check out the other handlings that are out there. There is always room for innovation, no matter how classic an effect is, or how many great magicians have tackled it. My handling for this is very clean and direct, and although I have a great deal of respect for the original routine, I have changed a lot of it to my own taste, and that is in direct relation to the satisfaction I get from performing it.
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Personally I was thinking of changing the vanishes. I'm not sure if there is a reason to use the ramsey vanish for the first 2 coins, the rest I like. but then again I liek to do things as they were so I will likey do it as written for a while at least
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-14 23:48, Bill Wells wrote: Actually, Bill, Tim Conover has performed many different versions of the Ramsay C&C over the years. In fact, I have private footage of him performing three very different handlings in one sitting (!). He has, of course, vastly improved on much of the original routine - some of the most important aspects of several of our routines are Conover innovations - but even though his current rendition may depart from textbook Ramsay, he is still capable of knocking out the classic handling at a moment's notice. Of all the guys I've seen do the routine, Tim Conover is undoubtedly the best. TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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Rob Mencarini New user 56 Posts |
I think you have just repeated what Bill was saying. I don't think anyone would doubt that THE Tim Conover could do the classic Ramsay routine.
I have that footage of Conover. A longhaired Latta is also present and doing some great stuff, and I forget who else...Gallo possibly. I believe it was filmed at Eric DeCamps house. Conover also does a classic misers effect where he turns 3 coins to gold and then suddenly the coin purse turns gold too. It's very unexpected. It's been a long time since I watched that video, thank you for bringing it up. I was very fortunate, a friend who attended Fechters many years ago gave it to me. Curious how you happened on your copy, Thomas. Are you a Fechters guy? We are talking probably 20 years ago. |
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-16 01:05, Thomas Wayne wrote: I'll second that statement. |
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-16 10:51, Rob Mencarini wrote: Really? I don't think so... but you are certainly welcome to your opinion. Quote:
Curious how you happened on your copy, Thomas. I'm not at liberty to name the source. TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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Bill Wells Elite user Lexington, VA 457 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-16 01:05, Thomas Wayne wrote: Thomas - you are 100% correct. Timmy grew up in the neighborhood I live in and I gave him a copy of Farelli's manuscript back in the day when he was starting to get into coins. Scotty helped him with making the cylinder and another local, Bud Smith, was also one of his early mentors. I also have a copy of that tape to which you are referring. As a matter of fact, the last time Timmy was in town for a gig, he, Scotty and I spend the evening going over variations on - what else? - the Ramsay coins and cylinder. There is no question - Tim is the best. Bill |
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Rob Mencarini New user 56 Posts |
"I'm not at liberty to name the source."
That's ok Thomas. So obviously you weren't at Fechters many years ago. That is why I inquired. Is the old tape supposed to be unmentionable? Or someone doesn't want it circulated? You make it sound like a highly guarded secret. I think copies must have been distrubuted rather freely in their day, especially if you turn up with a copy years later. |
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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
I have studied this plot quite a bit and seen some versions on tapes. Gallo, Carney, Watkins and so on and the most impressive to me from magicians standpoint was Watkins version. Its the only one where both hands are seen unmistakenly empty before revealing the coins under the cylinder. This is point I really believe most magicians are fooling only themselves. If you claim to vanish lot of coins one at the time, you MUST show your hands empty, even a split second, but any amount of transfers and hand washing wont give out same cleanliness. that's also why I don't do much coin magic myself, only few pieces. The problem with most coin magic is for me, again magicians point of view, that most coin magic looks like your hiding constantly something in your hands and in 95% of the time, I am right.
J-M |
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
That's true from a magicians perspective. iv had great success with my coin magic with lay people and just one use of a sleeve or top to show your hands empty and bring much power to the rest of your vanishes. iv been doing david stones one coin routine a ton latly and the coin is hidden in the same hand 95% of the time expet for one jw grip with the left yet spec after spec has continued to watch the left the entire time. its all about routining. by the time the spec thinks it might be in the other hand, the coin is in back thumb palm and shown empty.
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
HKorttihai_82 - "you MUST show your hands empty . . ."
I'd say you were right if you had said, "at some time in the vanish sequence". Often, if you are using a gaff of some kind, you can be completely clean for the first vanish. A shuttle pass can show both hands clean on the second and third coins, then things start getting ugly. Hopefully your audience has given up trying to find the coins after the second or third coin, if they are adhering to magic theory. Don't give up on coins too early - they are a favorite with my audiences anyway. Doug |
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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
Yeah, I should have chose my words better, but that's is what I meant. At some point you must show your hands empty.
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
I donlt totally agree. like the cups and the vanishes work cause you quickly show the balls have gone under the cups. and likewise with this, the coins are found under the cylinder. I think the coins foudn else where distract/misdirect from the heldout coins. along with that with c/c you have the wand and ramseys sub, working for you. I do agree that I wouldn;t sell as a total vanish. its the reappearing of the coins that make it work
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-16 13:46, Rob Mencarini wrote: I have a good idea of how many copies exist of the particular footage I was referring to. I know you don't have one, and I'm pretty sure you have no idea even what footage I'm talking about. In any event, I prefer not to answer your question - primarily because it is none of your business. TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I'm still curious about what folks have found good/bad about the Roth handling.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Rob Mencarini New user 56 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-17 05:01, Thomas Wayne wrote. No offense Thomas, but I clearly stated what material, and what magicians I remember being on the tape, how could you be "pretty sure" that it is not the same tape that you have? Just wondering. Mr. Wells immediately recognized it being the same tape he has, but maybe he is also referring to another tape of which I have no idea. What do I know? There is no doubt that it is possible. The tape I am referring to also has Tim producing his signature gold mouse and also doing a salt pour. He does 3 versions of the cylinder and coins routine. It sounded like the same tape you mentioned. Sorry for the confusion. I realize it is none of my business if you like to express it that way. I have been greeted here very kindly and thus far it has been a very friendly atmosphere. I had no intention of getting your shorts in a bunch. I come here as an equal peer and don't really care for any of the one-upsmanship that we sometimes see amongst magicians. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Welcome to the Café, Rob!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Rob Mencarini New user 56 Posts |
Thanks Frank. It looks like you have some amazing stuff on your website. Your cylinders for cylinder and coin look great too. Since we are already in that thread, let me alert Café members that this rather hard to find prop is here at Frank's website.
The cylinder I have is very old. Don't even know who made it, but nice to know that someone is still making them. In a short time I have found a wealth of imformation here at the Café. Thanks to all. |
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