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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ Chosen by Ron Timmer and MFH (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Recoplon
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It is interesting the trailer says "No Stick Tape or Glue" and "No Rough/Smooth" but the review clearly states something like this is used (SF?)
Gaz Lawrence
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If itís SF then itís a misleading ad as I have SF and itís great but itís definitely a variation of sticky stuff thatís for sure Tarik 🙂
AceFace
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Iíve ordered this as well, so I wonít be happy either if itís sticky or whatever...in the demo it certainly looks like a single card that is turned over at the end. Iíve broken the promise that I made to myself.... I WILL NO LONGER PREORDER ANY EFFECTS DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF MISLEADING ADVERTISING THAT WE ARE SUBJECTED TO... please donít let this be the case
videoman
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I agree that if it uses some sort of sticky stuff other than what is mentioned in the ad then that would be VERY misleading and not something that you could plead ignorance to because of a language barrier or something like that I wouldnít think.

Immediately upon viewing the demo it looked to me to that it just used a df and with the adjacent court card seemed obvious that there was something sticky going on.
But when I saw no sticky used and the fact that spec can handle the card, it had me fooled.
Plus, the bike and Phoenix gaffs included was strange because other than the aces they are pretty interchangeable unless they were referring to large index Phoenix.
So it had me confused as to what new method they had developed.
But if it does use something sticky I would also blame Murphyís for letting that go unchecked. Because they will pay the price by getting a ton of these returned.
Oh wait, I forgot, magicianís donít return things they just grumble and toss them in a drawer.

I guess we will know soon enough.
Ron Timmer
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Wow... what a discussion.
I do think David said it all in his review.

My goal is absolutely NOT to mislead anybody and if I have done so, I truly appologize.
I have a magicshop myself in the Netherlands (near Amsterdam) for over a decade and I am not afraid to tell my customers how a trick works or what principle is used just to give them an idea if the trick suits them or not.
People who knows me, know what I mean. I also am not afraid to tell a customer NOT to buy a trick if it is not good. A satisfied customer returns, it is that simple.

About this issue, I quess it all has to do with the fact if this trick uses Rough and Smooth or not!
What is the definition of Rough and Smooth?
To be honest and in my oppinion; the AND word states you MUST use two cards, a Rought card AND a Smooth card for the principle to work, right?
But in this case you only need 1 gaff basically? So therefor I said no Rough and Smooth.

I do not want to mislead anybody as a good customer returns. If you like this effect, you might want to pick up another effect of me....

That being said: I truly love performing chosen and I think you will like it too and it would be a shame if this one ends up in a drawer Smile


Have a wonderfull day!
Ron - MagicfromHolland.com
Visit our HUGE offline shop in the Netherlands or check www.magicshop.nl or visit www.MagicfromHolland.com
DavidKenney
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In my review I also said not to let the method distract you from the value of this effect. Bottom line: this is a wonderful effect and it's super easy to do. This trick IS already in it's own labeled tuck case ready to perform and will certainly NOT end up on ebay or at the bottom of a drawer.
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Alex DLF
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So itís a misleading add at the end of the day ?

Using a sticky stuff and saying itís not in play in the add, not the bets move you can do.
Get yourself the Flap Cards guide : http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4435

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cardbiker
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So itís not R&S itís SF which is just a play on words! Very crafty I for one wonít be a returning customer
Not in any other walk of life would this be permitted
Alex DLF
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Quote:
On May 11, 2018, cardbiker wrote:
So itís not R&S itís SF which is just a play on words! Very crafty I for one wonít be a returning customer
Not in any other walk of life would this be permitted


Exactly, I thing SF, Rough and Smooth, Roughing stick, double sided tape, theyíre all the same things and if your trick uses some of them, you shouldnít state nothing is in play..
Get yourself the Flap Cards guide : http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4435

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John C
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Awful, for the ad.

Unwise for us magicians always thinking/hoping that THIS time it is real Magic with no gaffs or tricky moves. Always has to be something.
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Gaz Lawrence
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Yes itís crazy as to be honest myself and Iím sure many others have been using SF etc and making effects like this all the time . After buying the Super cards dvd ( I think thatís the name ) from Richard Sanders years ago I have made a ton of stuff I wouldnít dream of marketing as they are all variations of a theme in general . I certainly wouldnít say no rough and smooth and no sticky stuff when I have blatantly used something of the same ilk like SF or Plastidip . Itís very misleading but was also pretty obvious as soon as I watched the effect . Good magic to all Tarik 🙂
videoman
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Also, what hasn't been mentioned is that if it is indeed SF or something similar would you allow your spec to handle or even touch the card?
I know I wouldn't.
Gaz Lawrence
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I agree videoman I think however Alexander Kolle says he does on his One card collector effect using SF but I wouldnít and infact I donít when I do that effect . Best wishes Tarik 🙂
DavidKenney
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"Also, what hasn't been mentioned is that if it is indeed SF or something similar would you allow your spec to handle or even touch the card?
I know I wouldn't."

The deck used is normal (you provide your own) and the card your spectator selects is a free choice, so it's not gimmicked in any way
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videoman
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Quote:
On May 11, 2018, DavidKenney wrote:
"Also, what hasn't been mentioned is that if it is indeed SF or something similar would you allow your spec to handle or even touch the card?
I know I wouldn't."

The deck used is normal (you provide your own) and the card your spectator selects is a free choice, so it's not gimmicked in any way


Yes, but I believe in the video Ron says you can let the spectator remove the card and turn it over, and this meant to me at the END of the trick not just during the selection. And he does in fact let his spec turn over the card and toss it briskly onto the table at the conclusion.

Most of us woudn't take that risk and I don't believe it can be done safely without relying on luck (or a spec who is in on it.)
But again, if it was only meant for the selection and replacement at the outset then that again is misleading IMO.
Gaz Lawrence
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David but it has to be a Bike deck or a Phoenix deck as you are just adding the SF coated gimmicked Bike or Phoenix or whatever substance you are using ok the gimmick to your regular deck . You could say that about all gimmicks that are made in Bike / Phoenix cards etc that you can use your own regular deck . You are just using the regular deck ploy to your advantage here rather than supplying a deck with the gimmick in it as then that sales tactic wouldnít work . I know you are just the review guy here and I like your reviews generally but this effect is just a joke to be sold in this manner . This effect I could knock up in under a minute itís a decent effect but SF etc are utility items and itís wrong that single effects that everyone who has a clue about SF are already doing similar and even much better routines with . This is just conning people who donít know about SF but know about R and S and the fact it doesnít use R and S is the misleading sales pitch imho.

You can let them remove it because I can only speculate as I donít know Ronís method but the top face down card in the spread at the beginning could have the SF etc on its back . A few cards down from this treated card in the unspread block that I mentioned earlier in this thread has the face up reveal that matches the blue backed prediction. When the selected unseen card goes face down on the face up deck ( court card showing ) once the deck is cut and spread it picks up the spectators real selection ( ie hides it ) and then reveals the forced face down selection a few cards further down the stack and it can be removed as itís a clean card . You can even throw in a duplicate of the same court card underneath the force card if you really wanted to so that even appears legit but any simiar court card willl suffice . All I know is that is 100% not a new idea anyone who has played with this principle and principles like this knows tons of these effects Tarik 🙂
Ramon M
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I have been playing with a similar effect based on an idea that I picked up from Christian Engblom several years ago. Done in the right way it's very effective (because it's very simple and direct). I understand why people get irritated with the misty world of magic advertising but keep in mind that this has been going on since the early days of the craft. Has maybe a bit to do with the nature of the beast as well. I would like to advise people to depend less solely on the stuff they buy and get more creative themselves. The magic will get much better because of it.
Gaz Lawrence
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I agree with you Ramon totally , I always get creative and I actually love it . I also agree there is very little that is completely new in magic . I just object to complete deception on our fellow magicians by saying no R and S or sticky stuff which they know is a big selling point for those who hate it and this I believe is just a variation of indeed that . Its like trying to kid a kidder and it just doesnít wash with me . Best wishes Tarik 🙂
cardbiker
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I notice the creators keeping his head down now
DavidKenney
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The gimmicks are NEVER touched by the spectator - so the spectator is free to handle all cards
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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ Chosen by Ron Timmer and MFH (9 Likes)
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