The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Theft or not? (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

The Great Hambini
View Profile
New user
6 Posts

Profile of The Great Hambini
So I have read many posts about buying Chinese magic trick knock offs. I find myself on the side of agreeing it is a complete rip off to the creator of the trick. But I recently found myself with a quandary. I am a huge fan of the Dean Dill Magic box. I figured out the method of the trick many years ago and while the "trick" is an old method of "rope manipulation," Dean's application of the trick is ingenious. Now that he has passed away and my recent bout with cancer, I find myself with 6 months off on industrial leave. (My prognosis is excellent, but my primary job does not allow me anywhere near work while I'm on chemo.) So I can purchase a Dean Dill box for well over $400.00, buy a Chinese knock off for about $65.00 on Ebay or I can make my own. The Dean Dill box is nice quality Cherry wood and should last a life time with care. The Chinese knock off is cheap crap that will basically work for the trick but.... You get what you pay for. Or if I build my own, (I am an amateur wood worker.) it would be equal or possibly better quality than a Dean Dill box since I would spend many hours hand crafting my box to make it look beautiful, personal and tailored to how I want it designed.

So with all that blathering, my question is this. Am I ripping off Dean Dill by building my own box? Does his passing have any correlation to the answer?

P.S. Just to set the record straight, I am not a professional magician. Not even a semi professional. I wouldn't even call myself an amateur. I am more of a fan of the art who performs for only close friends, family and small kids I run into at work.
D_avid
View Profile
Loyal user
218 Posts

Profile of D_avid
Passing in this case has nothing to do with it. It's ethics as well as possible legal (if patented, etc).
Poof-Daddy
View Profile
Inner circle
Considering Stopping At Exactly
4642 Posts

Profile of Poof-Daddy
With regard to the question at hand. If you need to ask, then you probably already know the answer. I think that these Chinese "rip off" sites are just awful and it is a shame they cannot be just taken down. Piracy is piracy with or without flying the Skull and Bones. I know that Andi at Vanishing Inc is working hard with others to prevent it in the future. Probably not in my lifetime, but hopefully someday. Here is a link to a FREE E-BOOK Andi wrote on the effort. https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-......ownload/

If you are not going to use it to promote or further your career financially and have the means of making the item which may or may not even be the same as Dean Dill's Box and if you just want to display it as a homemade decorative item on your desk or bookshelf to demonstrate to your children one day how some really cool yet exclusive magic was once used - Then "I" wouldn't see it as a problem. But, it becomes a problem if/when you decide to add it to your show if/when you take any steps to become more than a hobbyist.

Opinions will certainly vary and I'm sure some wont agree with my "just for yourself" idea but ultimately, YOU are going to have to be the judge and as I stated at the beginning, I think it is important enough to re-state. "If you have to ask, you probably already know the answer". Let your conscience be your guide.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure

Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).






Smile Smile
The Great Hambini
View Profile
New user
6 Posts

Profile of The Great Hambini
There was no patent on the how the trick was performed or the box itself. So legal issues are mute. But the question is about ethics. I feel that if I had purchased the Chinese knockoff to obtain the secret (Or gimmick) of how the illusion was done, I would be ethically wrong. I personally feel that I obtained the knowledge of how the trick was completed by honest and fair means. (By reading multiple magician books, I figured out how he he did it. I was able to confirm my belief by demonstrating and sharing my method with a fellow magician who owned the actual Dean's box. He confirmed I was exactly on point.) So am I obligated to buy his box? And does it matter if I am an amateur only showing off for free for friends or booking shows and making money. I believe at this point, I am only obligated to verbally acknowledge and give credit to the creator in my performances. (Assuming I am building my own box and not purchasing a Chinese Knockoff.)
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2197 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
Did you get the idea from watching Dean, or did you have the idea on your own?
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
The Great Hambini
View Profile
New user
6 Posts

Profile of The Great Hambini
Quote:
On May 11, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
Did you get the idea from watching Dean, or did you have the idea on your own?



That is an excellent point. I would have never thought about using the box in the way he did. So Dang you! I was feeling pretty good about myself until you asked that question! LOL. So ethically, I now believe you are correct. I still plan to build my own box as I see a couple improvements for my personal taste but I will look to see if there is a charity or other way to pay Dean his due respect. If I was to use it in a paid show of any type, I think the correct thing to do would be to purchase his box even though I would use my box for the performance.
danaruns
View Profile
Special user
The City of Angels
791 Posts

Profile of danaruns
I say build the box and enjoy it guilt free. Dean is gone, so you're not infringing on his livelihood. One cannot copyright methods, and there is no patent on the box, so there are no legal issues. I personally would not patronize the Chinese ripoff store. But I think you have zero ethical concerns with building one yourself.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
26943 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
If you're into making things, go look at older literature for ideas for what your box could do for you.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4714 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
I believe at this point, I am only obligated to verbally acknowledge and give credit to the creator in my performances.


Credit to the creator in your performance? I would say not necessary. A performance for non-magicians is different from a description in a book or DVD for other magicians. A comedian doesn't have to say who wrote each joke. S/he just needs to make sure s/he has permission to tell them.
Joshua Barrett
View Profile
Inner circle
Cincinnati, Ohio
3627 Posts

Profile of Joshua Barrett
Deans box predates.. dean. I believe the third phase is his.
The Great Hambini
View Profile
New user
6 Posts

Profile of The Great Hambini
Quote:
On May 15, 2018, Joshua Barrett wrote:
Deans box predates.. dean. I believe the third phase is his.


I was not aware of this. Do you have more information? I'm very curious....
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8339 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Stewart James....SEFALALJIA (SP??) Stewart published this routine in the late '30s. I have a copy of the routine.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
26943 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
There has been much work on "spirit cabinet" tricks. The Jinx had the Stewart James item. Karl Germain had a different take on the ring part of the trick using a volunteer.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
debjit
View Profile
Loyal user
India
216 Posts

Profile of debjit
Quote:
On May 14, 2018, danaruns wrote:
I say build the box and enjoy it guilt free. Dean is gone, so you're not infringing on his livelihood. One cannot copyright methods, and there is no patent on the box, so there are no legal issues. I personally would not patronize the Chinese ripoff store. But I think you have zero ethical concerns with building one yourself.


I completely agree. As long as you're not selling the box, I don't see why it's unethical to build one yourself for personal use.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Theft or not? (9 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.14 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL