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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Every meat eater wants to be a vegan and I can prove it to you (32 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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JoeJoe
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Every meat eater wants to be a vegan and I can prove it to you. Just think like a caveman:

No caveman is going to walk up to a dead dying pig carcass and say "gee that looks delicious", noooo ... mold fungus bacteria maggots ... you see that you are going to want to vomit.

So what man does it put the pig in a "smoke house" and smokes it for DAYS until the pig tastes like smoke ... hickory smoke ... from the hickory tree ... A PLANT!!

Everything you season your meat with is designed to trick your brain into thinking it is a plant so you won't want to vomit when you eat it: lettuce, tomato, pickle, catsup, mustard, garlic ... all vegetables. Smile

It is not the "meat" people want ... it is the "smoke". I cook over a fire for a reason: my vegetables taste like smoke and I do not miss meat in any way shape or form. The vegetables absorb the smoke better than meat, so my vegetables end up tasting even better than meat.

Chicken nuggets do not taste like chicken ... Kentucky Fried Chicken tastes like eleven herbs and spices, and if I season my potato nuggets with those same herbs and spices they taste exactly like Kentucky Fried Chicken. Smile

The trick is to get the right "texture", then you can season it to taste anyway you want. Spaghetti squash cooked in BBQ sauce will taste exactly like pulled pork, only it has a crunch ... to solve this problem, I serve it as a dip for corn chips. Thus, the crunch of the corn chips masks the crunch of the squash ... food magic, an illusion. Smile

Will be coming out of retirement soon, planing to do some videos on this stuff soon. Smile

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
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Jonathan Townsend
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Cooking with Joe Joe?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
stoneunhinged
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Interesting theory. But you're missing the fact that our ancient ancestors ate a lot of things that nobody would even consider eating, but did so anyway. I'll name a few:

Blue Cheese. It was an accidental, but someone still stuck some in their mouth and enjoyed it and didn't die.

Coconuts. If you've never tried to open one just fallen from the tree, good luck. You can open one if somebody shows you how, but how and why did the first human being decide, "I'm gonna get that thing open somehow and then EAT what's inside!" The fool.

Durian. It stinks.

Balut. It disgusts.

Nixtamalization. It works, but how in the heck did anyone figure it out in the first place?

So, JoeJoe, I think you are correct that ancient human beings figured out that cooking made those disgusting things taste better, but I disagree that they didn't try the disgusting things in the first place. And as is the case with nixtamalization, the evolution of food included making both meat and vegetables taste better.

And let's not even get started on strawberries and blueberries and wheat, which have all been engineered to be almost unrecognisable from their ancestors for reasons other than texture and smoke.

Nice try, JoeJoe. But I ain't buyin' it. Human beings eat animals because they taste good, not because they taste like smoke.
stoneunhinged
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Sorry for the double post, but I wish I had read the Survival thread before posting. I think I understand what JoeJoe is getting at. It's a Kwai Chang Caine sort of thing: just pick nuts and berries and roots and twigs and you'll be healthier and happier.

Maybe so.

But I'm not sure that Kwai Chang Caine would have eaten a "chocolate peanut butter banana coffee smoothie" either.

It seems clear to any thinking person that we human beings have over-processed our food, especially in the industrial era. But it is also true that we have learned the value of some processing. In my post above, I mention nixtamalization, which is a form of food processing that adds nutrition to corn and was indespensable for the diet of our ancestors in the the Western hemisphere. But take fermentation: it both provides storage and health benefits that I doubt JoeJoe would deny. Kimchi,anyone? How about beer and wine (not whisky!)?

But let's get back to veganism: fermenting milk products has proven to provide health and taste benefits for thousands of years and in almost all cultures, from joghurt and kefir to cheese, and our ancestors didn't abuse sheep and goats and cows to get their milk like they do today. Ethical veganism? Sure. But for health and taste? My wife would put her homemade kefir into JoeJoe's smoothie, and I would find it literally shocking if anyone would disagree that it would be both healthier and tastier than the vegan versions.

Back to processing: few today would argue that those cans of Vienna sausages and boxes of Kraft maccaroni and cheese in your kitchen cupboard are healthy, or that that loaf of Wonderbread will prevent diverticulitis, or that the extra-large bag of Tim's Jalapeno-flavored potato chips ought to be followed by a quart of Bob and Sally's salted-caramel Walnut coconut mint swirl ice cream in order to keep you safe from ovarian cancer.

We pretty much all know that human beings (and especially we Americans) have grown addicted to excessively processed, calorie and fat-rich foods that cause long term harm to our bodies.

But to deny that it doesn't taste good? My goodness, JoeJoe: if it didn't taste good we wouldn't do it!

Our real addiction is to physical gratification. We want buzzes. We want tingled taste buds, alcohol-buzzed nervous systems, sexual stimulation, and to have our ears and eyes filled with exciting sounds and images.

But we human beings also yearn for more than Pringles and Jell-O, and American society is slowly figuring that out.

What we probably won't figure out is that meat and milk products don't taste good, because they always have and always will, because of evolution (or our Creator) and not because of smoke and texture.
JoeJoe
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Not sure what you think those foods have to do what I'm talking about, none of them are "ancient".

Blue Cheese and Balut didn't exist until A.D. while coconuts and corn are not "flesh" and are vegan foods to start with. And a banana smoothie is also vegan so I fail to see how that contradicts anything I posted?!?

Doesn't sound like you understand what I'm talking about in any way shape or form. Do you know what "vegan" actually means???

And no ... animals do not taste good. If they tasted good, you would not need ketsup on them. If dead animal tasted good, you would eat them raw without seasoning (like you do vegetables). You have to flavor the dead animals to taste like vegetables or they do not taste good at all. Smile

-JoeJoe
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magicfish
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Joe Joe, sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong.
Meat is eaten after it has been been freshly killed, not stumbled upon rotting in the sun.
Just like plants. I eat my plants soon after I kill them.
I don't eat rotten plants nor rotten meat.
Thanks.
Oh, and I would never put Ketchup on my meat but some do, just as some dip plants in Ranch sauce.
Different strokes for different folks.
Animated Puppets
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I've always found veggies to be very desirable once you wrapped them with enough bacon...

Eating vegetables wrapped with meat that has been seasoned with vegetables - sounds very Zen to me Smile
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stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On May 23, 2018, JoeJoe wrote:
Not sure what you think those foods have to do what I'm talking about, none of them are "ancient".

Blue Cheese and Balut didn't exist until A.D. while coconuts and corn are not "flesh" and are vegan foods to start with. And a banana smoothie is also vegan so I fail to see how that contradicts anything I posted?!?

Doesn't sound like you understand what I'm talking about in any way shape or form. Do you know what "vegan" actually means???

And no ... animals do not taste good. If they tasted good, you would not need ketsup on them. If dead animal tasted good, you would eat them raw without seasoning (like you do vegetables). You have to flavor the dead animals to taste like vegetables or they do not taste good at all. Smile

-JoeJoe


JoeJoe, I apologize for not understanding you. My bad.

You obviously didn't understand me, either; but that's OK--it's your thread.

And yes, I know what what vegan means. Again, sorry.
Senor Fabuloso
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On May 23, 2018, stoneunhinged wrote:
You obviously didn't understand me, either; but that's OK--it's your thread.


No member owns a thread even if they start it. However it is common courtesy to comment respectfully. I see nothing wrong in your posts and joe is last on the list to understand social morays. RESPECTFULLY, I think he's an over inflated windbag of self delusion. Of course I say this with the utmost of respect.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
JoeJoe
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On May 23, 2018, stoneunhinged wrote:
You obviously didn't understand me, either; but that's OK--it's your thread.


No, I very much understand you - I used to be a meat eater but you most likely have never been a vegan. Smile

When I first had to go vegan because of my health I was depressed about it, especially when walking past a pizza place or a sub shack and smelling the bread and thinking to myself I'd never be able to eat that food again.

But after a couple of years of this new lifestyle, I realize that I was wrong ... you eat the same basic foods each and every day of your life: chicken cow pig ... I also remember standing in line at McDonalds looking at menu thinking "I'm tired of eating these same foods each and every day".

There are over a hundred and twenty thousand editable plants in nature, you have access to maybe three dozen in your grocery store. I have found all kinds of amazing foods hidden in a secret world man knows little about. Like I was riding my bicycle one day and saw some orange berries on the ground and slammed on the brakes. Took some home, discovered they were palm dates and editable and used for jelly. So I made some jelly and was like wow - this is awesome!!

I later went to a local grocery who sells some specialized exotic jellies and looked over all the ones he had ... no palm jelly. I was like "wow - you can't even buy this in a grocery store, this jelly is PRICELESS!!!".

A new world is coming ... the meat illusion has been exposed and people are waking up to the reality of what they are eating. When I first moved to this town I was vegetarian, but there were virtually no vegetarian options here in the south and I ended up eating meat again. Today, there are entire sections of the grocery stores dedicated to plant-based meats. The only segment of the food industry that is actually growing is the plant-based food as the demand for vegan rises and the demand for flesh falls. Smile

All I'm saying is if you gave it a try, you might actually like it. It is better than I thought, and I have no doubts it would be better than you think. Smile

-JoeJoe
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Dannydoyle
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Gorillas have a head shaped the way it is because all those muscles needed to have their diet connect up there. I believe our jaw is designed to eat cooked red meat.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JoeJoe
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Perhaps I should have titled the thread "everyone wants to be vegan and just don't know it" because to "prove" it I would need to have you taste my potato nugget demonstration. I recently did it for a homeless alcoholic I often feed, and he is a real true meat eater - the kind of guy that grew up in the mountains eating squirrels and rabbits. He has no desire to be vegan what-so-ever (but even he wants to try the new Beyond Burger).

The demonstration works like this: one part potato flour one part water, kneed into dough and then pull off chicken nugget size pieces and fry in oil until golden brown.

The first one I had him taste straight out the pan and say "now that is what you think vegan food tastes like - bland no flavor" and he agreed, "exactly".

Then I pour a bunch of seasoning herbs on a plate and have him dip the nugget in it until it is cover in the seasoning and have him try that one. He threw the fork on the table and said "you ***!". I was like "what?". He said "it tastes like chicken".

I said no it doesn't ... chicken doesn't taste like chicken, KFC tastes like eleven herbs and spices and if I put those same herbs and spices on my potato nuggets they taste exactly like KFC. Smile

Anything can be made to taste like lemon and peppers, not just chicken. Chicken nuggets do not taste like chicken ... they taste like sweet and sour sauce, barbecue sauce, ranch, etc etc etc. The only thing the chicken is actually for is texture. Smile

It is like a new form of magic for me. My whole diet has become an exciting world of flavors that I never knew existed. Smile

-JoeJoe
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JoeJoe
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On May 23, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Gorillas have a head shaped the way it is because all those muscles needed to have their diet connect up there. I believe our jaw is designed to eat cooked red meat.


You do realize that gorillas are vegan right??

Image


-JoeJoe
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JoeJoe
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The world's oldest living dog is actually a vegan, did you know that?? I didn't believe it when I first heard, I had to google it ... sure enough, not only is the world's oldest living dog a vegan so was the previous world's oldest living dog.

There are videos on YouTube of dogs actually pulling carrots out of the ground and eating them ... no joke ... we're talking mind blown here!! We were lied to!!

https://www.care2.com/greenliving/vegeta......ars.html

-JoeJoe
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 23, 2018, JoeJoe wrote:
Quote:
On May 23, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Gorillas have a head shaped the way it is because all those muscles needed to have their diet connect up there. I believe our jaw is designed to eat cooked red meat.


You do realize that gorillas are vegan right??

Image


-JoeJoe


I'm sorry but no. Gorillas often bust open termite mounds to eat as well as eating ants.

I know your passionate but don't let that blind you.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WitchDocChris
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I believe I have a somewhat unique perspective in that I was vegan for several years when I was in my early twenties.

I enjoy the taste of meat - when cooked properly. Which is the actual problem. Most people don't seem to know how to cook, and thus must cover mediocre cooking skills with too many seasonings and sauces. A good cut of beef, cooked in a bit of butter with a dash of salt is delicious.

When I cook veggies for myself I tend to just heat them up a bit and eat them, as I do enjoy their natural flavors. Poorly prepared veggies are just as nasty as poorly prepared meats.

It's all about balance, though. If I eat too many of various types of veggies now, it wreaks havoc on my system. I am significantly healthier now than I was then. I have also met some very unhealthy vegans (Both massively overweight and underweight) who weren't paying attention to their bodies.

There are no one-size-fits-all solutions for diets, it's a matter of exploring what works for each individual.

Honestly I think the only universal thing would be if everyone learned how to cook their own food instead of relying on boxes and processed foods. It's surprisingly easy to make most things from scratch and doesn't take that much time once you get proficiency in the basics of cooking.

So, sorry to say, but I categorically disagree with the statement that all meat eaters wish they were vegan.
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stoneunhinged
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JoeJoe, you obviously truly didn't understand me. Yes,I was once vegan, but for ethical reasons. I remain 99% vegetarian, also for ethical reasons.

My overly long posts were musings regarding your request to do a thought experiment: think like a caveman. My point--that cavemen opened coconuts and such--was that it does not surprise me that they ate meat that we might have found appetising. But they also figured out out to cook it--to process it. They also learned how ferment milk products, andd vegans decline to eat milk products, fermented or not, even though the health and taste benefits of something like kefir is undeniable.

In other words, we human beings have learned to process food in order to add flavor and taste, not to cover up the rotten taste of meat or the nasty whang of goat's milk.

That's the shorter version of what I was trying to say, and I'm sorry I wasn't clearer.

You started with cavemen, and I took us to how and why we process food.
JoeJoe
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On May 23, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
I'm sorry but no. Gorillas often bust open termite mounds to eat as well as eating ants.


I don't consider insects to be "flesh" and they lack the pain receptors that animals have. I have eaten grasshopper, very tasty.

When I really wanna freak someone out with my diet I eat a grub in front of them ... that is a nice word for "maggot". They are the only creature I know of that can turn protein back into carbohydrates, which makes them a better choice for a meal than the dead carcass they are eating.

-JoeJoe
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JoeJoe
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Quote:
On May 23, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
Honestly I think the only universal thing would be if everyone learned how to cook their own food instead of relying on boxes and processed foods. It's surprisingly easy to make most things from scratch and doesn't take that much time once you get proficiency in the basics of cooking.

So, sorry to say, but I categorically disagree with the statement that all meat eaters wish they were vegan.


That has been my point with these posts ... the food in the store is a scam ... the longer the expiration date on the box, the shorter your life will be.

And I would have disagreed with the vegan thing a few years ago myself. Smile

-JoeJoe
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 23, 2018, JoeJoe wrote:
Quote:
On May 23, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
I'm sorry but no. Gorillas often bust open termite mounds to eat as well as eating ants.


I don't consider insects to be "flesh" and they lack the pain receptors that animals have. I have eaten grasshopper, very tasty.

When I really wanna freak someone out with my diet I eat a grub in front of them ... that is a nice word for "maggot". They are the only creature I know of that can turn protein back into carbohydrates, which makes them a better choice for a meal than the dead carcass they are eating.

-JoeJoe


You do not get to make up your own definitions. A vegan does not eat food derived from animal products. Insects are animals. That is the end of the discussion.

Gorillas rest insects, they are not vegan. This is not a matter of opinion I'm sorry. We don't get ti massage definitions to suit ourselves.

Again I get your passion and it is great, but let's use the same terms. It makes communication possible and avoids misunderstandings.

I don't want your point lost.

And insects have the same if not more refined instincts than many animals. They hunt, they build and do all sorts of things you want to pass off as intelligent in other species. Just because we can't figure out if they feel pain in no way means they can't. They may feel it in a way we simply can't detect.

Look at bee behavior and compare it with wolves. Pretty close in lots of cases.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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