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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Every meat eater wants to be a vegan and I can prove it to you (32 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Animated Puppets
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My data was based upon the U.S. only.
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critter
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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 14, 2018, critter wrote:
Now let me explain why I counter these points: As a social psychology major who specialized in social influence I can tell you that weak arguments only strengthen people's resistance to your point of view. If you want to convince someone to see things your way then you have to lead with strong facts, politics aside.


You might want to look into "conformation bias" to see why facts don't matter, these days.


But they do.
Confirmation bias is how people interpret somewhat ambiguous information. Like how a Klansman and a decent human being will each say that a meme or film supports their own divergent worldview.
So confirmation bias in many ways supports my point, if the message is not clear then it strengthens the person's intrinsic beliefs.
And the idea of confirmation bias predates Cialdini's work.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers


"This I offer in explanation of how it was that I found myself in my undergarments as I sat in my cell attempting to plot my escape."
~Professor Phineas Valeyard, Miskatonic University Dept.of Psychodynamic Natural History.

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magicalaurie
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Thanks for clarifying. I gathered that, after seeing your human population number.
I was talking globally and put up global numbers for information, because you had said, emphasis my own:

Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, Mike Gainor wrote:
if everyone became vegetarian, what would we do with all the livestock?


Smile
"Every thought you think, word you speak, and action you take proceeds from either love or fear. Peace and upset, innocence and guilt, healing and illness all spring from that one fundamental choice." Alan Cohen
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, critter wrote:
Confirmation bias is how people interpret somewhat ambiguous information.

Not exactly.

Paul Simon sums it up perfectly here:



Have a listen at 0:21 - 0:25.

(You can listen to the rest of the song if you want to. And you might as well; it's a great song.)
JoeJoe
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Quote:
The catch in all this: plants are sentient, too


Picking a tomato does not kill the tomato plant, nor does eating an orange require an orange tree to be slaughtered. Part of becoming vegan is the realization that something does not have to die for you to live.



Quote:
if everyone became vegetarian, what would we do with all the livestock?


Most of it would never exist in nature, do you know what a "rape rack" is?? Cows only produce milk when they are pregnant so they are tied to rape racks and forcefully impregnated.



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Animated Puppets
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So... you're saying we should turn all the livestock into sex slaves?

I'm so confused right now...
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Oh wait for it. If you think you're confused now, that is nothing compared to what you will be once he gets going.
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tommy
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Ultimately everybody wants to eat ambrosia. Every rock wants to be a plant, every plant wants to be an animal, every animal wants to be human, every human wants to be a god and lesser gods want to be greater gods and so on ad infinitum.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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critter
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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, critter wrote:
Confirmation bias is how people interpret somewhat ambiguous information.

Not exactly.

Paul Simon sums it up perfectly here:



Have a listen at 0:21 - 0:25.

(You can listen to the rest of the song if you want to. And you might as well; it's a great song.)


Pretty close to exactly though. The definition is all about interpretation. How I've described it is simplified but accurate. In sticking to the part of the definition most germaine to this conversation I have demonstrated another part of the definition, which is best described as "cherry-picking." So you really can reduce that aspect of confirmation bias in others by presenting your information in a complete and accurate fashion, as I just didn't.

Perhaps of equal or greater importance is attempting to be aware of our own biases. Such as knowing that I am biased toward veganism because I are one. To this end we can then try to find a way to account for this in our interpretations.
And in a totally non-scientific or pedantic way, my opinion on doing this in our daily lives is just to learn to be interested in and curious about people. All kinds of people. It really makes life more fun, in my experience.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers


"This I offer in explanation of how it was that I found myself in my undergarments as I sat in my cell attempting to plot my escape."
~Professor Phineas Valeyard, Miskatonic University Dept.of Psychodynamic Natural History.

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magicalaurie
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, JoeJoe wrote:


Picking a tomato does not kill the tomato plant, nor does eating an orange require an orange tree to be slaughtered.


This is a relevant point and I appreciate it, JoeJoe. Thank you. Smile
"Every thought you think, word you speak, and action you take proceeds from either love or fear. Peace and upset, innocence and guilt, healing and illness all spring from that one fundamental choice." Alan Cohen
tommy
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Eating the baby does not kill the mother.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magicalaurie
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I was trying to add something, but, you see...

I'll put it here, then. The fruit/vegetable itself is taken, though. It would be anyway by others and only remain edible for so long, I suppose.

I thought about salmon that way for a little while- the way grizzlies take them as they're nearing the end of their days here. I was wondering if the red salmon advertised for human consumption is at a similar life stage, but I've been told otherwise.


Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, Mike Gainor wrote:
So... you're saying we should turn all the livestock into sex slaves?

I'm so confused right now...


No, he's saying the reason there are so many livestock animals, is that instead of allowing them to reproduce naturally, currently, they are artificially inseminated to rapidly increase production, and cows are maintained in a pregnant state so producers can sell their milk. Not confusing if you know a little about lactation.
"Every thought you think, word you speak, and action you take proceeds from either love or fear. Peace and upset, innocence and guilt, healing and illness all spring from that one fundamental choice." Alan Cohen
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A few people here have used the term "cooking meat properly" which I reject. Meat is cooked properly if it's done the way you like it. For example, I like well roasted lamb (those crispy bits are bliss) and yet I prefer medium rare fillet or sirloin steak. I also like my steak slow cooked in a mushroom and mustard sauce, sometimes brushed with olive oil and black pepper prior to frying, sometimes fried in truffle oil. Which of those cooking methods are "proper"?, answer - all of them.
Use the FORCE Luke.
Senor Fabuloso
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What I got from your post art85y, was HUNGRY.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
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Quote:
On May 29, 2018, rockwall wrote:
Do you think she really wishes she was a Vegan?


No veg, no potatoes, no wine, this is no way to do justice to steak. Also, never had rib-eye and probably never will after seeing this "its even a challenge to cut it" .......no thank you.
Use the FORCE Luke.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, critter wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, critter wrote:
Confirmation bias is how people interpret somewhat ambiguous information.

Not exactly.

Paul Simon sums it up perfectly here:



Have a listen at 0:21 - 0:25.

(You can listen to the rest of the song if you want to. And you might as well; it's a great song.)


Pretty close to exactly though. The definition is all about interpretation.

No, it isn't.

Confirmation bias is all about concrete information that cannot be misinterpreted. The key isn't in interpretation, it's in what information you accept and what information you discard. A person suffering from confirmation bias will accept clear, compelling, concrete information that supports his position and discard (i.e., ignore) clear, compelling, concrete information that undermines his position, often by trying to discredit the source.

Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, critter wrote:
In sticking to the part of the definition most germaine to this conversation I have demonstrated another part of the definition, which is best described as "cherry-picking." So you really can reduce that aspect of confirmation bias in others by presenting your information in a complete and accurate fashion, as I just didn't.

Cherry-picking it is.

And, just to let Señor Fabuloso that I don't pick on only him, it's germane.

Germaine is an Australian author of some . . . shall we say . . . notoriety.

Smile
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, critter wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2018, critter wrote:
Confirmation bias is how people interpret somewhat ambiguous information.

Not exactly.

Paul Simon sums it up perfectly here:



Have a listen at 0:21 - 0:25.

(You can listen to the rest of the song if you want to. And you might as well; it's a great song.)


Pretty close to exactly though. The definition is all about interpretation.

No, it isn't.

Confirmation bias is all about concrete information that cannot be misinterpreted. The key isn't in interpretation, it's in what information you accept and what information you discard. A person suffering from confirmation bias will accept clear, compelling, concrete information that supports his position and discard (i.e., ignore) clear, compelling, concrete information that undermines his position, often by trying to discredit the source.

Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, critter wrote:
In sticking to the part of the definition most germaine to this conversation I have demonstrated another part of the definition, which is best described as "cherry-picking." So you really can reduce that aspect of confirmation bias in others by presenting your information in a complete and accurate fashion, as I just didn't.

Cherry-picking it is.

And, just to let Señor Fabuloso that I don't pick on only him, it's germane.

Germaine is an Australian author of some . . . shall we say . . . notoriety.

Smile


Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, critter wrote:
Perhaps of equal or greater importance is attempting to be aware of our own biases. Such as knowing that I am biased toward veganism because I are one. To this end we can then try to find a way to account for this in our interpretations.

Amen!
critter
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Darned misspellings. Can't catch 'em all.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/confirmation_bias.htm
"Confirmation bias suggests that we don’t *perceive* circumstances objectively."

Dictionary.com:
"confirmation bias

[kon-fer-mey-shuhn bahy-uhs]

Word Origin

noun Psychology.bias that results from the tendency toprocess and analyze information in such away that it supports one’s preexisting odeas and convictions."

Oxford dictionary:
"The tendency to *interpret* new information as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories."

This is getting pretty off-topic with the semantics. Not that it's not super fun.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers


"This I offer in explanation of how it was that I found myself in my undergarments as I sat in my cell attempting to plot my escape."
~Professor Phineas Valeyard, Miskatonic University Dept.of Psychodynamic Natural History.

New Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/Valeyard-Magic-Stage-233226717588438/
critter
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Where you moved the goalposts is that I referenced the "weak evidence effect" and then someone else brought up "confirmation bias." I spoke of how the two can both be true and then you decided we were only talking about confirmation bias. Both are valid theories so it's not a stretch to extrapolate a connection between the two.

And if you need more support for this then read up on the "synergistic effect."

Let me know if this isn't fun. It's just the internet so it should be fun.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers


"This I offer in explanation of how it was that I found myself in my undergarments as I sat in my cell attempting to plot my escape."
~Professor Phineas Valeyard, Miskatonic University Dept.of Psychodynamic Natural History.

New Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/Valeyard-Magic-Stage-233226717588438/
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, critter wrote:
Darned misspellings. Can't catch 'em all.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/confirmation_bias.htm
"Confirmation bias suggests that we don’t *perceive* circumstances objectively."

This is true, but note that it doesn't say that it's a matter of interpretation.

I come across confirmation bias frequently in behavioral finance, which I teach. I've never seen anyone describe it as interpreting ambiguous data in one's favor. It's always cherry-picking.

Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, critter wrote:
Dictionary.com:
"confirmation bias

[kon-fer-mey-shuhn bahy-uhs]

Word Origin

noun Psychology.bias that results from the tendency to process and analyze information in such away that it supports one’s preexisting odeas and convictions."

Oxford dictionary:
"The tendency to *interpret* new information as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories."

This is getting pretty off-topic with the semantics. Not that it's not super fun.

It's interesting how dictionary definitions of words often don't correspond to how they're most commonly used.

But it is super fun, I agree.
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