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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Scott Tokar - How to Make 6 Figures in Magic (18 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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On Jan 29, 2019, Stokar wrote:


Please keep in mind, the course is only $350, if you are doing things right that should be around 1 show's income (or less). In the 4 hours of lecture alone we cover so much that is critical, I hope that you can get your money's worth out of it... The main thing is to INSPIRE you and to show you that making a solid living as a magician is doable, as much as it is fun.

Scott Tokar


This particular quote makes me nervous every time I see it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Danny Kazam
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On Jan 29, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
One danger of the partnership thing is that a company as savvy as that will soon realize that they can provide what you do for FAR less than they would pay you. I have seen it happen to balloon twisters.


Good point. I remember when I was a kid, me and a friend came up with this money making idea. We would stand outside of our local Drive-Inn theatre and wash windows on Fridays and Saturdays. Sometimes on Sundays if Monday was a holiday. We made great money at it. Both of us would have around $75 after just a few hours. The owner of the Drive-Inn discovered what we were doing, and how much we were making. The next year he wanted to hire us for $3 an hour. We declined, but we had no idea that he was going to make it impossible to work the next year by kicking us off the property and hiring others to do it.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Stokar
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Yes, I think it is better to be hiring the staff than to be hired as staff.

I don’t go into much detail (or recommendations) in working at a Chuck E Cheeses. We just use them as an example of how vast the Birthday market is. I think a kid can only have one birthday party a Chuck E Cheeses, you can be the next party highlight. And since you know how much the parents paid, you know how much you can charge THIS YEAR! Now, if you can figure out how to make the experience last just 2 hours and provide clean-up and some games along with pizza, parents will be happy to spend the same or more!

But all this talk about kids shows? You are missing the other verticals we cover like: Sales meetings, Tradeshows, Gospel Magic, 4-walling, Cruise Ships, clubs, big theater productions, street magic, restaurants, and more in the course.

Yes, we don’t do all 18 hours on just one specialty. This is “business” focused with an overview of many potential vertical markets.

Oh, and Eternital Order, if you want, I am happy to mark it up to $1,350 if you demand. 😜
Dannydoyle
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Buying a pizza place to do a kids show seems a bit much.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Stokar
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On Jan 29, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Buying a pizza place to do a kids show seems a bit much.


Agreed.

Never suggested that.

Maybe we have run this whole Chuck E. Cheeses example into the ground.

🤐
Dannydoyle
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You are playing both sides of this fence. Is it a good idea or not
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Danny Kazam
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I've actually performed a birthday party at Chuck E Cheese, even McDonald's. I also performed a birthday party held at the Science Center. I've performed birthdays several times at Rec Centers and community halls.

I can make the same amount you suggest in your lecture without doing anything more than offering magic. No need to take advantage of a girl Princess, or become a birthday party planner and organizer. Most parents I deal with don't have an issue with organizing, planning, and running a birthday party. In fact, they love it. They even get the birthday child involved with the planning. They have friends and family who also help out.

Offering to plan their child's birthday party and run it is not something my birthday market finds of any value. Parents I deal with want to be hands on in every aspect of their child's birthday. And, I encourage that as well.

Mindpro hit on it in a previous post. It's one thing to state the "what" as you do, but the "why's" and "how" is where the real meat is. Telling someone they need to research their market is one thing, teaching the many optional ways they can do that is another.

I think the 18 hours of video is to compensate for the lack of real quality content. Stuff as much into the program to create the perception of value by means of quantity rather than quality.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Stokar
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On Jan 29, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
You are playing both sides of this fence. Is it a good idea or not


Danny,

I said that if you add more things as a package to your birthday party “experience” (like an assistant to play games, clean-up and serve pizza) you can ask for the same price (or more) than a Chuck E Cheese birthday party. This way, a magician can do a 30 minute show, but have the “magicians assistant “ stay on site to complete the experience. The magician can then cram more shows into a single day and charge more for each show...

To prove my point, I used the opening and operating expenses from a Chuck E Cheese franchise (that makes 75% of their income from birthday parties).

Magic as a business, to make $100k + requires the same amount of work as running any other business (like a 7-11), but I never said go buy a 7-11 or a Chuck E Cheeses.

But again, kid shows is like 5% of the course.

Hope that clears it up...

Scott Tokar
Stokar
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On Jan 29, 2019, Danny Kazam wrote:

I think the 18 hours of video is to compensate for the lack of real quality content. Stuff as much into the program to create the perception of value by means of quantity rather than quality.


Danny

Are you just trolling?

That kinda stung...

You did say:
Scott Tokar does a good job in addressing some important points about running a magic business, all the other video's and interviews are very interresting, some of them very informative as well, but over-all I found it lacking in real meat. By that, I mean the kind of stuff you can learn from taking a marketing course, or reading books by authors of well known experts in the field, who have helped teach the "how to" of each step of marketing your business.

Question, if I answered the things that you would also get by taking a marketing course, or reading books, perhaps you could admit that it is a concise or focused look at applying these things without having to take a semester class or trying to find books on the subject?

Scott Tokar
Dannydoyle
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Danny Kazam is not a troll. If something stung it is not his fault.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Stokar
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I guess you are right.

You can’t please everybody. I guess I was tired. Sorry Danny....

Scott Tokar.
Danny Kazam
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100% of my business comes from kid shows, but you are right, it takes the same amount of work as running any other business.

Once again I have to correct you. The reason why Chuck E Cheese is successful is because it does not rely on birthday parties for the majority of it's business. A little bit of research shows birthday parties make up only around 15% of their business. They didn't come up with new ways to draw up more birthday party bookings. They understand their market, and who their competition are and have created an environment that competes with other family style restaurants. Including changing their menus to add more selections.

My point is, there are ways an entertainer can increase the value of their birthday show without putting themselves into direct competition with restaurants such as Chuck E Cheese. We can offer a magic class as an add on, balloon animals, (if one chooses to learn how to make them) goodie bags, personalized invitations, extra routines such as the chair suspension, or a puppet show, or face painting, just to name a few off the top of my head.

Rather than try and offer my clients what Chuck E Cheese can offer them, I prefer to offer my clients things that Chuck E Cheese can't offer them. Danny Doyle made a good point when I brought up working with Chuck E Cheese as part of one of their birthday packages. All they have to do is see the financial opportunity of it and hire their own in house entertainer.

I apologize if some of my comments stung, but I'm not trolling. I have over 1500 post compared to your 10.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Dannydoyle
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With the birthday party business in their model only being 15% of total it makes em LESS sense to buy one to do parties.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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This is exactly why I would never release a product to the mass magic community. This is not what they need. Between so many different levels of magicians, so many different types of specialty, so many different and available performance markets, such limiting "magician's thinking," and the copy-cat approach so common in magic, you are just setting yourself up for problems and limited success if any.

Most that I've talked to that have released courses or programs have come to this realization on their own and discovered it is just not worth it. More problems and dissatisfaction occurs than the originally expected positive results. I ask many if they would ever do it again or revise their program and I usually get a "no, it's just not worth it, financially, emotionally or as expected."

When I discuss with them many of the things I've mentioned here they usually have come that that realization and agree claiming it was actually quite disappointing, unfulfilling and very eye-opening. (I usually tell them "well if you had just listened to what I was saying BEFORE you did all of this you would have saved a lot of frustration, aggravation, time money and frustrated belief in the magic community, lol).

You are right, you can't please everyone, especially when they don't truly know what they want or need themselves. Of all types of performers, I work with this is very unique to the magic community. They don't know what they don't know, and often times don't want to learn what they don't know.
thomasR
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Another problem with these courses is they really start to repeat themselves. A lot of the guests for Scott's course were guests on Davinci's online seminar, and have also been guests on various podcasts. If I can get the general idea for free by listening to podcasts, why am I buying your course which is just another set of the same interviews?

I enjoy the interviews and hearing about what has worked for individual performers. But that's not really a course... I think of a course as being more along the lines of what John Kaplan offered with his Fundraising Magic. It was all about 1 thing.. fundraising shows. The entire course was designed to teach you how to do 1 thing... fundraising shows. If you followed the course, you could easily make money doing that.
Stokar
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This is a magic as a business course. Marketing is also covered (to a lesser extent), but it was designed to show someone the potential vertical markets, and help see that in all specialties you can easily make a solid living in magic.

Your criticism is valid if you are already making 6 figures, but if you are looking to start a magic carrer, I am confident this is the right course for you. If you have an MBA I may not be able to help you. But time and time again I have received emails from young magicians beaming with joy because they have doubled their income by implementing just part of what I teach here.

I have one of the earliest copies of Joel Bower’s “Hustle Hustle” and remember the value of Joel talking about the various specialties back in the late 1980’s. This course is an updated view of some of the same ideas (with some more specifics). Critically it received praise in Genii and other magazines when it was released (so for some I am on the right track) Just look at the reviews on THIS thread on page 1.

If you are criticizing my course without seeing it, or pre-judging it because you were at one time scamed by a marketing course, please give it a chance.

By the way, ELLUSIONIST relased a LITE version of the course at just $39 per episode. Maybe that would be a good place for someone to start. (Again, if you are already making $100,000+ and you are set in your business, no need to listen to what I am saying).

Wishing you all success and increased profitability.

Scott Tokar, MIMC
Dannydoyle
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The weird thingis you have 12 posts and 10 are about your course.

Danny HAS bought the course. He DOES have opinions about it.

I was reacting to your claim in this thread that somehow it is a good idea to spend millions in a franchise, run it and all that goes worth it just to have kid spews available. It is in my view not the best route. As I said going around the block to get next door.

So the criticism is valid no matter what he is making.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
charliecheckers
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Danny- in fairness, I did not read it that way. I read his post to say that if someone is willing to put down the cash (and a bank is willing to sign off on a substantial loan) to operate a Chuck E Cheese franchise it is a good indicator that a kids magician can make $100,000 in that area if they can implement ways to better (beyond just a performance) satisfy birthday parents.

I agree we once again have someone who could contribute in meaningful ways to the Tricky Business section who only chooses to do so when it directly involves their offering (too bad because Scott seems like one who is passionate about helping others).

I do think there is a lot to be gained from exposure to things described in his program that offer ideas to those who are trying to understand how they can create a viable business when they have little experience. I do not doubt his sincerity when he shares there are those who have greatly increased their business as a result of his ideas. I know early on we benefited from this type of material. I was glad someone shared how they built a business, booked shows and increased their close ratio. I think Scott has been fair here in saying what his course is and what it is not as well as his own limitations.

I like that the whole discussion of Chuck E Cheese came up because I was able to compare our approach vs what others are looking at doing to monetize this market. To me, it is great to be having these discussions here. It also confirms my belief that there is much to be learned from an industry perspective, as Mindpro articulated.
Mindpro
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Like so many of these types of courses and programs released and promoted here in Tricky Business, I had reservations about this primarily due to what Charliechekcer's mentioned about someone popping in here only to promote and sell their course without being an actual contributor (I understand Scott didn't start the tread it was done by a friend who on occasion may pop in). These people could further insight and discussion here on the forum, allow us to get to know them and their experience while building credibility that in the bigger picture would help them on many levels. But as we see regularly these guys only have their personal agenda as it pertains to promoting and selling their wares, with little concern for the actual TB community. It is such a shame.

These same guys will tell you that they are so busy working that they don't have time to post here regularly. I call BS on this as well as I have been on the road typically 42-46 weeks a year and never have trouble finding any time to contribute. Danny is on the road to countries all around the world 3/4ths of the year again without any problem either.

Also, I have problems with the way it is being released and initially promoted. A course like this should be reviewed by an unbiased, credible source. That speaks volumes more than testimonials (that may or may not be manufactured or fake, solicited) the creator, Ellusionists and any of their friends and customers could speak. This is followed by those unbiased who have actually purchased the program offering their thoughts (after all they spent the money and can state it's value and if it was worth it to them, why and why not.

When a product is released and promoted improperly it is an IMMEDIATE red flag to me. If they can't properly and effectively promote their new program that they strongly believe in, how good can they actually be in offering sound business advice and information? They must know their target audience which is exactly what Tricky Business is here, yet their approach misses the mark greatly.

Initially, I was asked by several for my opinion on this and refrained for the longest time out of respect and to see how it would be promoted here, and until this thread allowed change for either of these two things to occur. Until Danny Kazams recent post, I refrained.

Here's the problem, and I am not speaking specifically to Scott but to these guys that try to pass off their personal experience (and magicians thinking) as entertainment industry knowledge. To me, this is one of the secrets to entertainment business success. That is learning and education must be done in the right and proper sequential order. Practically every course I see fails on this point. Just like beginners just want to "get to the performing" with disregard to originality, community protocol, etc., when it comes to business everyone just wants to get to the marketing and getting bookings. Many lead performers to believe this is all they need.)

In reality, marketing is one of the last steps to success in entertainment business. There are soooooo many other things that needs to be learned, known, understood, and in place before ever getting to marketing. Every course I have seen fails on this.

Same for the verticle moves Scott keeps talking about to explore other markets. How can this even be done without first a clear understanding of the business, markets available and all they entail (in order to make the right and proper choices and decisions). Most reading may not even know what verticle moves are or what this means, and even before any of this learning about the different possible business models that are available and again, the differences. How can people make proper decisions on things they don't truly understand on the level required to make those decisions?

As with almost every course I have seen, the very crucial and important elements that comprise the foundational level are rarely offered, never completely to get a true understanding, and never in the proper sequential order.

Also, learning occurs on different levels. What is of interest and appealing to beginners is completely different than to a current working professional. Most try to blanket cover both in the same effort and more times than not it becomes confusing, unclear, and overwhelming to the newbie and only minimally beneficial to the experienced pro.

I could go on and say more but we'll leave it at that. I'm betting even without reading the course my response would be quite similar.

Now with that said I am NOT saying a course like this can't be helpful on several levels. But it usually is in different ways than expected when the buyer purchased. Because of this, they may find less value than expected. This is something that both parties should understand and be aware of.
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I'm just speaking from my own experience. First, I gave up my small painting business which was earning me close to 200,000 a year. I was making that because I began working for myself when the housing market boomed where I lived. I had more work than I could handle.

I gave it up though to pursue my dream full time. Entertaining was my real passion, my purpose. It wasn't about making a lot of money, it was about what brought me real joy, happiness, and fulfillment in my life. It was my goals of being the best that I can be, and providing the best entertainment I could possibly create for my audience, knowing full well that my dream depended on them. It was my - and still is my passion that drives me to be all that I can be. To continue learning, practicing, studying, and working on the business aspect of my career. The sheer love of the attention and admiration I receive from my audience is what inspires me grow and continue providing the most value I can. It was this mentality that got me booked, and re-booked. And, like a domino effect, it has earned me a very good living.

I never focused on making money, but what I did focus on just so happened to earn me enough money to continue living my dream, provide for my family, make some investments, and plan for my retirement. My business sense has helped me to get bookings, how to research my area to understand my market, who to approach, how to approach them, and where to approach them. It has taught me who to network with, how to create and build a brand, how to create value in my service beyond my skills, and how to research out new markets, just to name a few.

So why did I spend over $300 for the course? Because I am willing to invest in my dream, and to find new, innovative ways to stay on top of my competition. I don't want to become complacent, or too comfortable. I want to be moving forward all the time. I thought there might be something in the course that would help. The course wasn't what I thought it would be. It wasn't the idea of making a $100,000 that enticed me, like it probably did for others. It was my thinking that I would learn some valuable tips and strategies to further my career.

I knew I was taking a chance on it, as I have read a few books on marketing by other magicians, and share the exact same opinion as Mindpro does about them. Mindpro's just more articulate than me when explaining it. He really knows his stuff, and I've come to admire him for his intelligence and wisdom. I also respect and admire Danny Doyle for his insights and knowledge as well.

For any beginner out there, my advice is to ask yourself why you want to be a magician. Why do you do what you do? Do you really love it? Are you willing to put everything you got into it, and work real hard to make it happen? Does it fulfill you? Do you feel it's your purpose in life? It does for me. When others said I couldn't make a living as a kids performer, I only tried harder. I'm also extremely blessed to be married to a woman who absolutely believes in me. When I felt things getting tough, she was there to help remind me of my purpose, my why. And, my why is what kept me going, and keeps me going.

Some of the magicians interviewed in the course never spoke about how they subsidize their income writing books, producing dvd's, doing lectures internationally, or marketing tricks and routines. I wonder why? As someone else pointed out, their interviews were close to being the same as other interviews they have done. I did enjoy most of them though. I just didn't take from them what I was looking for, what I was hoping for.

If success means to someone making a lot of money, fine, but there are much more easier ways of doing it. Making good money at what I do is not what success means to me, nor is it my why. It just happens to be one of the benefits resulting from knowing my purpose, and following my dream with a real deep love and passion for it. I may never reach the stars, but I'm enjoying every minute of the journey just trying to get there. That's all I expect from myself.

I hope others find their purpose, and follow their dreams.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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