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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Some moves (in French) (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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jjsanvert
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JJS
JFX
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Nicely filmed and of course nice moves! Thanks for sharing Smile
Cagliostro
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Nicely done and thanks for demonstrating JJ.

But...the big, quietly whispered question is..., "Do these moves look just as good in English as they do in French???" Smile
JasonEngland
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JJ,

If the top card is face up, won't people realize you're dealing seconds? Same with those bottoms. I think the moves would be a lot more deceptive if you turned the Aces face down.

I hope this helps.

Other than that, great job!

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
Mr. Bones
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Quote:
On Jun 2, 2018, JasonEngland wrote:

I hope this helps.

Smile

I lol'd.

...Beautiful J.J.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
chappy
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Nice work my friend.
DETAILS OF DECEPTION at www.thedevilsstaircase.com
jjsanvert
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I give warm thanks to Jason (among other guys) at the end of these films. Now you understand why.
JJS
Cagliostro
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I am kind of curious and have a sincere question for JJ and well as ALL the demonstrators on this BB.

When you guys do your demonstrations, regardless of whether you do them in English, French, Swahili or whatever, Smile do any of you folks use plastic cards instead of paper decks. Maybe this question is not relevant because we are talking about demonstrations here, but I notice that AMcD has repeatedly stressed that all demonstrations conform as much as possible to "real" procedures, formats and methods. That being the case, should not Rule One be - Plastic Cards?

The reason I ask the question, (and it IS a sincere question), is I can't remember a card room poker game or bigger private game, played for worthwhile stakes, in which plastic cards were not used exclusively, usually bridged sized cards, but perhaps poker sized in some area.

I would also surmise that plastics are used in just about all money poker games of note in most areas of the UK and European Union. I could be wrong because I have not visited all areas of the EU (or Asia), but for the most part plastics seem to be the ONLY card of choice in bigger money games.

Of course casino table games use paper cards almost exclusively because in order to protect the games these cards have to be changed frequently. Further, these cards are usually handled exclusively by the dealer. So paper cards give more protection and are a less expensive alternative for casino table games. Also, I don't even know if demos of how to beat Caribbean Stud, Pai Gow Poker and so forth are realistic or very interesting to perform.

Therefore, Poker is almost always the demo game of choice.

Therefore, isn't using plastic cards for all "realistic" demos of poker ploys more valid, even though paper cards are easier to manipulate. (Of course, the exception would be pure magic demos that are designed just to entertain.)

So what do you demo guys think? I am really curios on this and would appreciated some feedback, especially from the demo pros.
AMcD
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I have done dozens of demos using plastic cards, cut cards, etc.

It's true that for a couple of years I now use paper cards in my videos. But it's more because I'm lazy to get a plastic deck than anything else.

Here in UK, at least when I was still playing, cards where 100% plastic. Pubs, leagues, private games, friendly games, etc. I don't remember having ran across a paper card in any game in this country.
jjsanvert
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I use plastic cards and different qualities and brands of cards for my trainings.
In fact, plastic cards are much easier to handle for these moves than paper cards in my taste, as they slide more easily - and they are consistent, contrary to paper cards.
The same with strip-outs and push through, and all shuffles: I often prefer handling plastic cards.
The most difficult for me is doing push off with old paper cards that stick together.
The only problem I can find with plastic cards is often the noise, doing seconds: I have to use a lighter touch.
All in all, I don't see any great difficulty using plastic cards. The feeling is just different.
Thank you anyway for your kind words Cag.
JJS
Cagliostro
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@jjsanvert: I agree 100% with everything you said as that has been my experience also.

The changeover from paper to plastics is a little bit of a "shock" initially, that is until one gets used to the different feel of plastics which doesn't take very long.

Years ago, I changed over to plastics out of necessity. I had no choice since the money games like poker, and even Gin Rummy, all used plastics and they have become my preferred card over the years. However, I still use paper cards since casino table games use paper decks almost exclusively.

I was just curious why most demonstrators, who primarily demo poker related scenarios, still use paper cards almost exclusively. However, I can see that magicians who primarily do card tricks are probably better off with paper decks since there are various gimmicked decks and cards that are specifically designed for use with paper cards.
AMcD
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I fully disagree! For some moves plastic are better, for other moves paper, ok. But on average plastic cards are much more difficult to handle. Thicker, heavier. The quality varies a lot according the brand you use as well.

I publicly challenge everyone saying that using plastic cards is not difficult!

Piling up cards 2 inches in front of you is one thing. Stacking card, laying briefs and sailing deuces around a Poker table is another one.
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2018, AMcD wrote:
I fully disagree! For some moves plastic are better, for other moves paper, ok. But on average plastic cards are much more difficult to handle. Thicker, heavier. The quality varies a lot according the brand you use as well.

I publicly challenge everyone saying that using plastic cards is not difficult!...


Fair enough! The type plastic card makes a difference and there are a variety of plastics on the market with different handling characteristics. Same goes for paper cards. However, I have been confined to three or four brands of plastics that are used in the money games where I play. However, if you have worked with many different brands as a demonstrator you no doubt have come across more handling characteristics than I.

Many years ago, when I first started working with plastics in the Gardena card rooms, we only used two "moves" or ploys. It took a very short period of time to adapt to the Kem plastic cards in those games. Other moves like seconds, bottoms, peeking, hopping the cut, simply would not fly for very long in the bigger games because they were too well known, so were not attempted.

I should add that back then, Kem cards were terrible to work with but for the few methods we used, it did not matter.

Out of curiosity, I just pulled out a deck of poker sized Copag cards. I did a couple of riffle stacks, some pull throughs, strip-out shuffles, even some bottoms and seconds...personally I think they are much smoother to do using the Copags than with paper cards, except perhaps for a brand-new paper deck. Paper decks can be much more difficult to work with when they become worn, bent or sticky. Did a couple of Gin Rummy moves with the Copas...worked very nicely, also butt and Faro shuffles very nice. And...the Copags are a little thinner than the Bicycle deck I am comparing it to.

Granted other plastic decks could create some problems, especially if thicker and less pliable. Also, some plastic decks would be more difficult to work with than paper, but the reverse can also be true. It depends a lot on the quality of the cards. I have seen some less than high quality paper decks that also left a lot to be desired. However, if you have worked with a large number of plastic decks, I can't disagree with you that some are more difficult to work with compared to paper decks.

However AMcD, if you are having problems with some of your moves using good quality plastic cards, maybe you need to practice more or your technique is flawed. PM me if you need some help in that regard.

...Oh, just kidding...having some fun. Smile
AMcD
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Nice prose, but show me a video where you stack 3 cards, say for player #5 out of 7, for a round of Hold'Em. RRSSC. On a gambling table mat, not a *** Magician's pad.

Show me how easy it is to do that with a plastic deck. Please.
Cagliostro
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LOL. You know how I feel about that silliness.

Demonstrator challenges? Funny.

We live in two different worlds.

Be serious. Smile
AMcD
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It's years you call me a demonstrator and I don't like it. Maybe you should be serious yourself?

I don't clearly see why you do call silliness my request. Maybe you wanna make it more interesting? What about involving a bit of money?

Despite the fact you guys say that manipulating plastic cards is not that hard, I bet you that you can't do some classic sleights properly.

Manipulating plastic cards is difficult.
Cagliostro
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I am not going to parse words with you Arnold. You gave your opinion and I gave mine.

Simple. No?
AMcD
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Stop calling me a demonstrator, it's even more simpler.
Gamblingman007
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AMcD there is nothing wrong with being called a demonstrator if you look at it from my perspective. I’m the Gamblingman007 and I know. There are many demonstrators that really gamble for a living (periodically) or at least they used to gamble like yourself. Here are a few...

Walter Scott (deceased)
Gene Maze (deceased)
Rod The Hop (deceased) (Gardena-period)
Toni Giorgio (deceased) (Gardena-period)
Wesley James
Jeff Wessmiller
Doc
Jason England
Dave Malek
Robert Celestino
Jack Farrell
Steve Forte (Gardena-period)
Mr. Z.
...and myself

So “AMcD” please don’t be upset being called a demonstrator, be proud to have your name listed with ours because we would love to acknowledge you as one of the best who ever did it.


Best Regards

The Gamblingman007
Cagliostro
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There we go. The elite of the demo world. Nothing wrong with that.
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