The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Some moves (in French) (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2335 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2018, AMcD wrote:

Despite the fact you guys say that manipulating plastic cards is not that hard, I bet you that you can't do some classic sleights properly.

Manipulating plastic cards is difficult.


I understand that plastic cards may be more difficult for some to work with. We all have different abilities and playing card preferences. Also, the 100 year old "classic" sleights used for demos are not necessarily the current methods used in the more professional poker games of today.

I use plastics out of necessity because those are the cards used almost exclusively in professional money games, however I can understand why most magicians and card table demonstrators/performers use poker sized paper cards for their presentations. Those are the type cards they have used exclusively and most have never used or handled a plastic deck at length or at all.

The only reason I mentioned plastics for demos is because at least one demonstrator I am aware of has postulated that card table performances conform as closely as possible to actual money game playing procedures. Therefore, it would seem to me that in order to satisfy that criteria, for realistic demonstrations plastic cards would be a very important or first consideration.

Further, bridged sized plastic cards (standard throughout the U.S. and in many other countries for the more professional money games), would perhaps present even more of a challenge to those performers who only use poker sized paper cards.

That being the case, perhaps it would be best for most performer/demonstrators to stick with poker sized paper cards, preferably a new deck that has never been handled by others. It keeps things simple that way and evidently makes the manipulations much easier for many.

Additionally, paper decks come in a myriad of interesting and fancy designs which perhaps enhances and adds flash to the performer's card table demonstrations. (See the wide variety of paper cards advertised for magicians continually on The Magic Café.)

Finally, it appears that even the most well-known performers/demonstrators use paper cards exclusively in their presentations. Since these presentations are not real card games anyway, what difference does it really make?

Probably none.

Just my opinion of course.
iamslow
View Profile
Inner circle
Proffessional Slacker
1885 Posts

Profile of iamslow
I used to practice random moves at the casino years ago when I used to deal poker...The cards were Kems and I found it easy to adjust to plastic once you get used to it and it didn't take long once you were capable of the moves using paper cards... unfortunately nowadays they use shuffle masters for all games where I work and most of the dealers can barely do a standard riffle shuffle...
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
WBE
View Profile
New user
1 Post

Profile of WBE
JJ,
Could you tell us more about this movie ? When are you going to release it ? Where could we order it ?

Thanks !
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2335 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Aug 22, 2018, iamslow wrote:

I used to practice random moves at the casino years ago when I used to deal poker...The cards were Kems and I found it easy to adjust to plastic once you get used to it and it didn't take long once you were capable of the moves using paper cards... unfortunately nowadays they use shuffle masters for all games where I work and most of the dealers can barely do a standard riffle shuffle...


And that is why I have written previously that the old moves, the "classic" moves if you will, are in large part of little use nowadays except perhaps for non-professional private games... speaking generally of course.

In today's professional games, both casino table games and casino poker, players never get a chance to deal the cards or even hold the deck. The cards are controlled and dealt in all these situations by professional dealers or presented in video format.

The old moves are of little value in these professional venues. Shuffle machines are used extensively, both in poker and for casino table games, and even if the dealer tries some old sleight of hand moves to beat the house to help an "agent," he is still going up against video surveillance which records everything he does. Eventually, and maybe sooner than later, a player or someone in surveillance will suspect cheating is occurring or something is wrong, especially if manipulation is being used. And remember, it is all captured on video tape in glorious color.

Because these moves have been exposed so much over the years, there are enough people (say 5-10% of players), who will rap to something being wrong when common moves are used over time. Oftentimes a player on the game will simply suspect "something." Then all he has to do is inform management of his suspicions. All management has to do at that point is play back the tapes, over and over again if necessary, to observe the entire procedure to figure it out.

Of course, in private game formats, whether talking about poker or other private card games, one can still get some of these moves on. This is where a private player will mostly encounter such chicanery. However, these private games are usually small-time affairs nowadays because of the accessibility of casino gambling, and most pros don't frequent these type games. It is primarily the small-time amateur cheat who will attempt to ply his trade in these situations. One again, there are exceptions of course, but most people prefer to play in casinos because of the perceived protection they receive and because the games are often readily accessible.

However, in order to beat casino table games and casino poker (which is where the big money usually is), one just can't use the old "classic" moves. In that venue, they are pretty much obsolete. That is why "other" less know and more deceptive methods are used.

Classic moves are mostly for use by magician and demonstrators in today's world and this is the arena where the most skillful and innovative practitioners of card table "moves" reside. Those who don't understand this or argue otherwise, or get upset or irate because I mention the obvious about classic moves from time to time, are not up to date on current methods and what it takes to beat professionally dealt games. They either have an agenda to promote, a persona to maintain, or are simply behind the times.

And...the world keep spinning. Smile
iamslow
View Profile
Inner circle
Proffessional Slacker
1885 Posts

Profile of iamslow
Cag, I would have to agree but also disagree with some of your statements... Although there is extensive use of automatic shufflers, It doesn't mean classic moves are outdated or not a viable option for cheats.... I just think the selection of moves and how moves are used have to be adapted....just because the dealers don't get to shuffle, they still have to cut and deal the cards (poker)... They still deal the flop turn and river.... although stacking might be negated, there are still other moves that can be applied and used to gain a huge advantage if one was in collusion with the dealer... Smile
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Regular user
194 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
Quote:
On Aug 23, 2018, Cagliostro wrote:
.......They either have an agenda to promote, a persona to maintain, or are simply behind the times.


That same comment applies equally to folks who repeatedly profess to have knowledge of far more modern, far more effective card table moves (which they unfortunately can't share with lowly "demonstrators" as these moves were taught in confidence, and are "secret").

Knives always cut on both the upstroke and the down-stroke ... "both ways" as it were.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2335 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Aug 23, 2018, Mr. Bones wrote:

Quote:
On Aug 23, 2018, Cagliostro wrote:
.......They either have an agenda to promote, a persona to maintain, or are simply behind the times.


That same comment applies equally to folks who repeatedly profess to have knowledge of far more modern, far more effective card table moves (which they unfortunately can't share with lowly "demonstrators" as these moves were taught in confidence, and are "secret").


True...and apparently it seems to drive those "lowly demonstrators," (whomever they may be), green with envy. Smile
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Regular user
194 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
Just yankin' chains Cag Smile ... my point really only being that - EVERYBODY who posts to internet forums has either an agenda to promote (usually their opinion), a persona to maintain (their personality), or are simply behind the times (and seeking information).

It's really kind of the entire basis for all public internet forums - regardless of what the topic might be.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2335 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Aug 23, 2018, iamslow wrote:

Cag, I would have to agree but also disagree with some of your statements... Although there is extensive use of automatic shufflers, it doesn't mean classic moves are outdated or not a viable option for cheats.... just think the selection of moves and how moves are used have to be adapted…


No disagreement here. You make good points. However, I think my post alludes to other methods of beating the games, the principles of which are variations of what has gone before in a new dressing or with a different twist. The principals involved in this area are limited, the variations therein are not. Broadly speaking, there is nothing new under the sun in certain respects. It is how it is presented and implemented that makes the difference. And in some cases that difference is huge.

However, if you are playing in a licensed joint that has cameras, whether poker or table games, the basic 100 plus year old moves (dealing seconds, bottoms, hoping the cut and so forth) are pretty much passe for the most part. Of course, without getting into too much detail on this public forum, (and with apologies to Mr. Bones), of course there are a number of things one can do in conjunction with the dealer that do work. There are also a number of things that work without the dealer's help.

I thought my post pretty much alluded to this.

Everything is situational. There are no "magic" moves. It is context and innovative adaptation (mixed with grift sense), that matters most.

However, at the demonstrator level this is all mostly irrelevant. In that case it is usually how well one does some basic moves that matters most.
iamslow
View Profile
Inner circle
Proffessional Slacker
1885 Posts

Profile of iamslow
I guess its kinda like martial arts.... There's hollywood martial arts and there's the real life martial arts..... The way its presented in hollywood is amazing and flashy in which someone like bruce lee is taking on 5 guys with all these fancy "entertaining" and flashy moves but when you watch an actual self defence situation on the streets, its not flashy nor entertaining but it gets the job done... each has their place...


Jon Smile
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
jjsanvert
View Profile
Special user
Paris, France
585 Posts

Profile of jjsanvert
After much delay, this is finally here (only in French):
https://www.magicdream.fr/techniques-et-......ert.html
JJS
popcalinda
View Profile
Veteran user
344 Posts

Profile of popcalinda
Sh**, not on Russian?
jjsanvert
View Profile
Special user
Paris, France
585 Posts

Profile of jjsanvert
Just for your information, here is what some gentlemen said about this double dvd:
« Very well done »
« Doc » Eric Mc Mullen
« You are truly an artist at your craft”
Jack Farrell
“Jean-Jacques’ mastery of the false deals is outstanding as he demonstrates and teaches these classic gambling moves with the perfect blend of superb techniques, rhythm, and great chops!”
Steve Forte
“With Jean-Jacques, you will be in expert hands with not only a gambling aficionado, but also someone who is a past master and a fantastic entertainer”
David Malek
JJS
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15675 Posts

Profile of tommy
How much some gentlemen were paid is a mystery. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Gamblingman007
View Profile
New user
39 Posts

Profile of Gamblingman007
Quote:
On Feb 18, 2019, tommy wrote:
How much some gentlemen were paid is a mystery. Smile


Tommy you’re still crazy. Very funny. lol
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15675 Posts

Profile of tommy
Seriously, it is bound to be very good.

The translation is a bit funny: 12- Gives Underwear Immediate (Ed Marlo).
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
jjsanvert
View Profile
Special user
Paris, France
585 Posts

Profile of jjsanvert
Thank you Tommy - tell me how much I owe you ;-)
JJS
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Some moves (in French) (6 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL