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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Ever so sleightly Ľ Ľ How do I get rid of the ball in the stack after performing cups ang balls..? (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Pekrist
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I have practiced cups and balls for a while, after studied Michael Ammar and Daryls dvdís. I have filmed myself when I practice, and showed my wife a couple of the videos. She got very impressed and had to see the cups set, (a copper Monti from RnT). She twisted the cups to see if she could open the bottom in a way etc, very amusing. 😊
But now she wants to see me perform it, and I know she will demand to see the stacked cups after the third ball is done. So I wonder, what do I do in a situation like this, I mean how do I get rid of the ball in the stack...? (I donít think Ammar or Daryl has talked about this in their videosÖ)
Any good tips? 😉
BeThePlunk
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There are sooooo many C&B routines, you'd have to be more specific. If you're worried about a spectator examining your cups, use a different routine that doesn't leave any evidence.
Al Schneider
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You may think this a silly solution but I have used it often. Say, "If you look at that, you will see how the trick works."

Please, the spectators are smart. Most people on this forum do not understand that. Most depend on suspension of disbelief. That is, we depend on the fact the audience knows it is not real magic. So, why act like it is. Be honest with your audience. Sometimes someone sits behind my working area. I do not say, "Would you please move." I say, "If you sit there you will see how this all works." The response is that the person will move without another word. Please, respect your audience. You will find that eventually audiences will start telling you that watching you is comfortable and watching other magicians can be difficult. Remember, the performers bow to the audience at the end of a performance because the audience is your ultimate judge.

Al Schneider

PS: Then develop stronger material.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Pekrist
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Thank you very much for your replies.
BeThePlunk: Yes I know there are many different routines, but after been watching Ammar and Daryls two dvdís many times, I canít remember they have talked about this issue. But perhaps I have missed something here...?
Iím just at the starting point about performing the c&b. I master these ęeasyĽ moves about one to three balls through the cups into the table quite well now, but as mentioned I canít figure out how to remove the fourth ball from the stack, without anyone (in this case my wife) noticing it.
Iím 67 and retired and have now a lot of spare time to practice these cups routines. I have always been fascinated by magic, and especially c&b.
I was looking some months for which cup-set to buy. First I bought the Mendoza combo cups in aluminium, I didnít like them (too large for my hands, and found the weight very low). So then I bought the Monti copper combo set, and love it.
Well, I believe there has to be one or perhaps several ways to remove the balls, if I only knew... 😉
Al Schneider
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Apparently you did not care for my answer. So let me answer your question in a different way. You are a beginner. Like most beginners you believe there is some device in a trick that enables it to appear as magic. That is, the audience will be fooled. In general this appears to be true. However, it is not. Any magic effect has a device within it that accomplishes the effect. That is mechanical. But that is not the magic. The magic is in the performance. The magic is created by the person doing the magic. The skill of the performer is to take the mind away from the device being employed and focus the attention of the audience on something they suspect but does not exist. Then you have magic.

It is somewhat like acting. One person can stand on stage are read lines from a piece of paper and wonder why an audience does not react to some dramatic line. Then a trained actor can deliver the same lines and the audience may cry, laugh, or cheer. What is the difference?

Magic is similar. A hidden wire, trap door, or ball concealed in the hand does not a magician make. To be a magician, one must understand what the audience sees then train oneself to alter what the audience sees.

To be sure, many magicians make a hobby of collecting gimmicks with wires, trap doors, and a wide variety of devices. It is a wonderful hobby that magicians share with each other. Go for it.

By the way, I am 75 and have performed the cup and ball sequence you refer to many, many times while I grew in magic. Your question shows you are on a learning path. A grasshopper asks questions the master cannot answer for the master sees the path the grasshopper cannot.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Pekrist
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Al Schneider: Thank you very much for your thoughts and good advices. And I just downloaded your video ęAl Schneider Cups & Balls by L&L PublishingĽ from Penguin, absolutely fantastic! 👍
mr_misdirection
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Is she happy for you to disassemble the stack or does she want to?
If it's you who does it simply use SOH, iIf she wants to. Tell her you'll divorce her and she'll get nothing.

If I have to get a spectator to move to a different angle I have quick segue tricks which I can involve them in and then I make sure I reposition them and go straight into the trick I had planned in the first place.

Good luck with the wife and C&B's and if not make sure you get a good divorce lawyer Smile
BeThePlunk
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Pekrist - I'd like to know what routine you are performing. Can you include a link to a video of someone performing the routine?
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jun 15, 2018, Pekrist wrote:
I have practiced cups and balls for a while, after studied Michael Ammar and Daryls dvdís. I have filmed myself when I practice, and showed my wife a couple of the videos. She got very impressed and had to see the cups set, (a copper Monti from RnT). She twisted the cups to see if she could open the bottom in a way etc, very amusing. 😊
But now she wants to see me perform it, and I know she will demand to see the stacked cups after the third ball is done. So I wonder, what do I do in a situation like this, I mean how do I get rid of the ball in the stack...? (I donít think Ammar or Daryl has talked about this in their videosÖ)
Any good tips? 😉


First, other than the obvious*, it reads as if you're doing the trick well and she was impressed to the point of wanting to examine the cups. +1, and +1. Great work so far. Bravo.

There's a moment in some beginner routines where you pretend to put a ball in your pocket and have the ball reappear under a cup (or all three...) but instead of appearing under the cup it appears in the stack - almost all the way through - so you repeat with more woofle dust or whatever. That's your lead-in to actually put a ball away the second time around for that effect... what's left on the table is the three cup stack and the third ball apparently joining the other two under the stack to end.



* showing her the cups and the routine videos beforehand (Hoffmann/Robert-Houdin about surprise and repeats)...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
sethb
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If you want to let everyone examine the props after the trick is done, it would be a simple matter to tip the remaining cup stack back towards your palm while you're giving out the first cup for examination. With that handout movement as misdirection cover, you can then let the ball roll back out of the stacked cup into a FP. Now you are clean and can give out the remaining cups for a look-see, while ditching the palmed ball at your convenience, perhaps in the act of picking up the storage bag to replace the cups.

I would also add that usually, the specs are permitted to examine all the cups and balls before the trick begins, rather than afterwards, so that you don't have to worry about that issue. And if you do have a prior exam, then it's also easy to decline a post-op one, by reminding the specs that they've already examined everything before.

Finally, please consider that in most tricks, it's neither necessary nor appropriate for the specs to examine everything before and/or after the trick is done. This is a magic trick, not a science experiment! If people are being too grabby, you may need to work on your audience management skills, or get a more respectful audience. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Pekrist
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Thank you very much everybody for all your excellent advices. First I will try to learn a good routine about what Sethb says, why haven't I thought of that...? 👍🤔

BeThePlunk: No Iím sorry, I donít have a file I dare to share yetÖ Itís not a full routine, but just a stack with 3 cups, one ball in the middle cup and three on the table, and in the end have 3 balls under the center cup, if you understand my bad English or explanation. 🙄
sethb
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Pekrist --- Unless you've already seen it, I would highly recommend the videos that Michael Ammar made a few years ago about the Cups & Balls. This is a two-DVD set called "The Complete Cups & Balls," and it teaches you everything from basic sleights and phases of routines to final loads. The video is very clear, the explanations are great, and you can replay each section over and over until you absorb all the details. Michael covers everything from the basic one-ahead gravity routine you are apparently working on, to the more complex and difficult moves and sleights. The two DVD's run about $50-60 for the set, but are probably the best investment you could make to become a good C&B worker. As a second choice, I'd suggest Bob White's DVD, "Cups & Balls: A Practical Approach," about $45, and lots of good information here, too, but get the Ammar DVD's first.

FYI, I used to demo and sell the C&B at street fairs and festivals. I used the small plastic Royal Magic/Fun, Inc. cups, and small crocheted black balls from Rings & Things. My single final load under a three-cup stack was an Eveready "D" size alkaline battery --- and the jaws never failed to drop when the silver battery appeared instead of the three balls that people were expecting. The battery also made a loud and convincing "thump" when I picked it up and dropped it on the pitch table, thus proving it was real and solid, but without me saying a word. I sold a lot of C&B sets that way!

My point is that you don't need expensive, fancy props or a bunch of difficult finger-busting sleights to perform a mystifying and entertaining C&B routine. If you perfect a good reliable FP and a convincing false transfer, have effective misdirection (and along that line, get a wand if you don't already have one -- for all the good reasons explained in the Ammar DVD's), some interesting patter and a knockout final load (fruit or big colorful lacrosse balls are great), that's all you need. Good Luck!! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
funsway
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There are techniques for removing the ball from the stack every time the penetration is know -- a showing of empty as confirmation or deflection. Then the ball is moved to the desired location including back into the stack. These would eliminate the concern over "getting rid of it" at the end.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jun 15, 2018, Pekrist wrote:
... Any good tips? 😉


A motivated question: Do you carry the cups in a cloth bag? Besides just putting the bag in your pocket as pretext to get ahead in your routine ... you'd be amazed as how easily a crumpled up bag could find its way under a cup later. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Josh Riel
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You know, there easily could be an entire volume of books devoted entirely to adages, proverbs, and wisdoms of magicians. It would have nary a single magic trick and be an absolute MUST READ for all new magicians.

Nothing against Al's first post or any other post, but his second is powerful enough to stop most new magicians (if they read it) from learning more than one trick, until they made that one trick into magic.

Unrelated to the topic, sorry, but I was just thinking about it. I have dozens of tricks I've bought from "brick and mortar" magic shops that I'll never open. I don't need new mechanics, I need always improving magic.

I just buy stuff from the B&M's because I want them to stay in business.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Al Schneider
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Dear Readers:
My goal was to present a truth before everyone else came up with solutions. I do not believe what I had to say was understood. A beginner is on a path to learn magic. They want solutions to problems an experienced magician knows does not exist. The solution is to do magic. Whatever path is selected will be successful when the beginner masters one trick effectively. Then, he is no longer a beginner. An experienced magician knows that when doing a new magic effect, it will fail. Undaunted, the pro will continue with the effect doing it until the bugs are wrung out. Now that several solutions have been presented, here is a correct solution: select one trick and do it until it works. You have no choice. That is how it works.

Al
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
funsway
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"They want solutions to problems an experienced (person) knows does not exist."

Thanks for that! As a general concept it applies to so many life themes today. In some ways, performance magic is a mirror of everyday life.

Scratch a physicist and find a philosopher.

I'll get me a T-shirt: "The novice seeks solutions to problems that experience knows do not exist."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
kentfgunn
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I'm assuming you're doing the routine that generally comes as a photo-copied page posing as instructional material. If you're showing the balls penetrate the bottom cup, mouth down, one at a time, this should help.

When you've shown the third ball has penetrated, pick up the three cups with your left hand and put them mouth down into your right hand. (I'm assuming you're right-handed).

Take the bottom cup from the mouth-down bottom of the stack. The hidden ball will roll out into your right fingers, finger palm it. In a continuous and evenly timed process take the other two cups, one at a time and stack them mouth down onto the first cup.

Relax, let your hands naturally drop to your side.

The stuff the other guys said may have value for you.
malaki
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A solution that I have used since I started performing the Cups & Balls is to use a change bag to carry the cups.
Use the change bag to vanish the last ball, then "cast" it under the cups. Show the bag empty and then reveal that ball with the rest. This provides enough misdirection to allow you to load the first load ball. Just be sure to get or make the bag big enough to house the nested, pre-set cups with however many final loads you wish to use. This also allows the examination of all props (except the bag) after the routine. Pack everything away and the bag becomes incidental. Just don't forget to reset!
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