The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Bannon's Triumph: how to set it up (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
Degio
View Profile
Regular user
It took me years to get to
150 Posts

Profile of Degio
I am a huge fan of John Bannon's Triumph (that I learned from his fantastic Bullets After Dark DVD): it's very easy to do and always gets a strong reaction from the audience.
I am often using it as an opener, but I am also wondering if there is a good method to do it starting from a shuffled deck (i.e. totally impromptu). What's the best way to set up the deck while casually playing with it?
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6916 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Play it Straight from Impossibilia is an excellent trick.
Are you familiar with any culling techniques?
Vlad_77
View Profile
Inner circle
The Netherlands
5829 Posts

Profile of Vlad_77
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2018, Degio wrote:
I am a huge fan of John Bannon's Triumph (that I learned from his fantastic Bullets After Dark DVD): it's very easy to do and always gets a strong reaction from the audience.
I am often using it as an opener, but I am also wondering if there is a good method to do it starting from a shuffled deck (i.e. totally impromptu). What's the best way to set up the deck while casually playing with it?



Hi Degio,

Bannon's Triumph is superb - no surprise there of course as I believe all of his material is superb. Anyhow, in an open forum I can't openly discuss method. I am going to give you five citations to routines that are constructed such that you are setting up right in front of the spectators' eyes.

Before I do that I should also mention that in Harry Lorayne's Jawdroppers 2 (I THINK, sadly I don't own the book), Mr. Lorayne teaches his approach to setting up in front of spectators). Now to the citations and I will add that all are superb and each/all are worth buying.

"Bait and Switch" by Simon Aronson in his book The Aronson Approach: This is a killer routine. The only "down side" is that you would need an extra deck.

"A Swindle of Sorts" by Paul Curry in his book World's Beyond: Another great routine. Here you are actually working with two suits right out in the open.After the effect, gather up the non-Bannon suit (I like that lol) and lose it in the deck. Then, as you're talking about the previous effect you can toy a bit and literally put that suit in the order you need. "Lose" them in the deck either with a m******e s***t OR plunk the cards on top of the deck and j*g s*****e and you're ready to go.

"Secret Setup" by Roberto Giobbi in Card College v.5: Giobbi teaches a fun routine/technique for setting large setups in the course of the routine.

"Either Or" by John Guastaferro in his book One Degree: This routine is a blast because it affords some seriously fun byplay with your spectators AND it allows you to set for your next setup required routine.

"The Great Divide" by Harry Lorayne available at http://www.harryloraynemagic.com/store/p......ide.html This is a very versatile method for setting a deck into quite a few permutations. And it works nicely even with a smaller setup relative to a complete deck setup.

I'm certain that others will chime in with more ideas. I hope that my suggestions help!

Best,
Vlad
Degio
View Profile
Regular user
It took me years to get to
150 Posts

Profile of Degio
Edited as I was originally disclosing too much.

Many thanks for the suggestions: indeed I didn't think about memorized decks: it should contain suggestions on how to casually build a (partial) stack.
Regarding culling: very good idea but only partially solving the problem.

I will probably have to go and look at my old IT software programming studies to find the minimum number of iterations required to put cards in a selected order.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6916 Posts

Profile of magicfish
"Regarding culling: very good idea but only partially solving the problem."

How so?
Vlad_77
View Profile
Inner circle
The Netherlands
5829 Posts

Profile of Vlad_77
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2018, Degio wrote:
Edited as I was originally disclosing too much.

Many thanks for the suggestions: indeed I didn't think about memorized decks: it should contain suggestions on how to casually build a (partial) stack.
Regarding culling: very good idea but only partially solving the problem.

I will probably have to go and look at my old IT software programming studies to find the minimum number of iterations required to put cards in a selected order.


Or you could learn how the pros I cited do it. And you don't need a memorized deck. I mentioned Bait and Switch because while it CAN be used to ring in an MD, it can also be used as a very deceptive DS period. Regardless, enjoy the journey.

One more thing: just curious buy why are you wanting to explore permutations and iterations? There is only ONE iteration to get a set of cards into a predefined order but there are 13! (6227020800) ways to order the 13 cards period. Methinks thee laboreth too hard. Smile
Degio
View Profile
Regular user
It took me years to get to
150 Posts

Profile of Degio
Thanks very much Vlad and magicfish.
I have to study a lot and learn, that's clear.
You gave me lots of good starting points, so I am more than happy.

For clarity: when I said that culling was only partially solving the problem I meant "one spread-cull to the bottom or the top" (sorry this is mostly a language issue).
With a single deck spread and cull (to either bottom or top), I can separate one suit but I cannot put in any particular order; that requires more iterations, that's why I said "partially solving".
Tim Cavendish
View Profile
Inner circle
1378 Posts

Profile of Tim Cavendish
He's talking about culling the suit and then wondering how much work it is to put the suit in order.
Degio
View Profile
Regular user
It took me years to get to
150 Posts

Profile of Degio
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2018, Tim Cavendish wrote:
He's talking about culling the suit and then wondering how much work it is to put the suit in order.

Correct! Thanks a lot Tim. Native English speakers always use less words and get clearer messages across.

Quote:
On Jul 19, 2018, Vlad_77 wrote:
"The Great Divide" by Harry Lorayne available at http://www.harryloraynemagic.com/store/p......ide.html This is a very versatile method for setting a deck into quite a few permutations. And it works nicely even with a smaller setup relative to a complete deck setup.

I do not know The Great Divide, but I performed Separagon (by Woody Aragon) to achieve the same result (before an Out Of This World); but my challenge is related to sorting, not separating.
asherfox
View Profile
Veteran user
365 Posts

Profile of asherfox
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2018, Tim Cavendish wrote:
He's talking about culling the suit and then wondering how much work it is to put the suit in order.


Culling a suit with slop shuffle is very easy. However, putting them in order is a real problem.
Degio
View Profile
Regular user
It took me years to get to
150 Posts

Profile of Degio
Quote:
On Jul 23, 2018, asherfox wrote:
Culling a suit with slop shuffle is very easy. However, putting them in order is a real problem.

The method I'm currently using is:
1) I go through the deck once (sometimes with the excuse: "I need to remove the jokers") and cull the selected cards to the front of the deck by upjogging them and then stripping them out
2) I then fan the first cards towards me and, one by one, pick the right cards in order to sort them
The first part goes unnoticed, but the second part is much more obvious.
Either I have time (chatting with the audience) and so I can split this second phase in multiple small steps, or it is very obvious that I am somehow setting up something.
I also tried a sort of "divide and conquer" approach for step 2, basically going through the (initial set of) cards again and upjogging ace to 7, stripping them out and bringing them to the front, so that I am left with two smaller sets to be sorted. With another spread and cull I can bring to the front 8 to 10 (and so on), but the whole process is worse than picking one card at a time and setting the order in one go.
I have also tried upjogging and downjogging, to have two extractions with one spread... not that great either.
I went through the Café section dedicated to stacks, to see if there are specific tecniques (I do not have Mnemonica nor other memorized deck book) but found nothing.
So I was wondering how you guys were addressing the problem of sorting cards...
Smile
warren
View Profile
Inner circle
uk
3558 Posts

Profile of warren
Quote:
On Jul 23, 2018, Degio wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 23, 2018, asherfox wrote:
Culling a suit with slop shuffle is very easy. However, putting them in order is a real problem.

The method I'm currently using is:
1) I go through the deck once (sometimes with the excuse: "I need to remove the jokers") and cull the selected cards to the front of the deck by upjogging them and then stripping them out
2) I then fan the first cards towards me and, one by one, pick the right cards in order to sort them
The first part goes unnoticed, but the second part is much more obvious.
Either I have time (chatting with the audience) and so I can split this second phase in multiple small steps, or it is very obvious that I am somehow setting up something.
I also tried a sort of "divide and conquer" approach for step 2, basically going through the (initial set of) cards again and upjogging ace to 7, stripping them out and bringing them to the front, so that I am left with two smaller sets to be sorted. With another spread and cull I can bring to the front 8 to 10 (and so on), but the whole process is worse than picking one card at a time and setting the order in one go.
I have also tried upjogging and downjogging, to have two extractions with one spread... not that great either.
I went through the Café section dedicated to stacks, to see if there are specific tecniques (I do not have Mnemonica nor other memorized deck book) but found nothing.
So I was wondering how you guys were addressing the problem of sorting cards...
Smile


Personally if I wanted to perform this and I wasn't using it as an opener I would have it set up and then just use a deck s****h to bring it into play.
ThomasJ
View Profile
Special user
Chicago
850 Posts

Profile of ThomasJ
I’ll sometimes open with Lazy Man’s Card Trick and then use the stack for Play it Straight. Doesn’t solve your problem, but wanted to share for what it’s worth. The spectators will get the impression they shuffled during Lazy Man’s.
Degio
View Profile
Regular user
It took me years to get to
150 Posts

Profile of Degio
Great idea ThomasJ!
Indeed the setup remains completely unnoticed after Lazy Man.
Thanks a lot
Nerdini
View Profile
Loyal user
Little Rock, Arkansas
220 Posts

Profile of Nerdini
Just a quick question. Do you perform the Bannon triumph as a stand alone effect or have you ever used it as the second part and finale to Vernon's standard Triumph?

Doing them together creates a double whammy for two spectators--especially a couple and the fact that your Bannon preparation is hidden all through the Vernon effect makes it doubly impossible to reconstruct. Bannon even mentioned doing it this way when he first wrote up "Play it Straight Triumph" in "Impossibilia" which was published way back in 1990. That's how I started presenting the trick and is the way I have done it exclusively over the years.

However, I don't think that combining the two effects was even mentioned on the Bullets after Dark DVD set.

Cheers
"I was in love with a beautiful blonde once. She drove me to drink; that's the one thing I'm indebted to her for"
Maestro
View Profile
Special user
823 Posts

Profile of Maestro
One thing I do is have the setup for bannon's triumph set up, and then do a different trick that does shuffle the deck, but only a little bit ( like red hot mama with a hindu shuffle). After that I can fix the stack in between effects very quickly while "removing the joker" or something like that.
Degio
View Profile
Regular user
It took me years to get to
150 Posts

Profile of Degio
Great ideas, thanks!

Quote:
On Jul 28, 2018, Nerdini wrote:
Bannon even mentioned doing it this way when he first wrote up "Play it Straight Triumph" in "Impossibilia" which was published way back in 1990.

I learned Bannon's triumph from the DVD and never thought about combining it with the Vernon's triumph.

From what I read throughout all replies, I get the feeling there is no easy way to set it up from a shuffled deck.

Never mind: as an opener (or as a follower of another trick that does not disrupts the setup) is really strong!
Dr. JK
View Profile
Inner circle
Sandusky, OH
1186 Posts

Profile of Dr. JK
I second the recommendation from Vlad to use "Either Or" from John Guastaferro's One Degree. It's a fantastic little trick in its own right, but it's such a smooth way to do what you need for something like this. And, it's easy!

Presentationally, you could perform "Either Or" by discussing how one might find a chosen playing card based on the individuals persona, etc., but then offer to up the difficulty by shuffling, blah, blah, blah.
- Jeff Kowalk, The Psychic CPA
www.youtube.com/eruditemagic
IG: @erudite.magic
FB: @eruditemagic
WayneBurrows
View Profile
New user
Palmerston North, New Zealand
66 Posts

Profile of WayneBurrows
"I will probably have to go and look at my old IT software programming studies to find the minimum number of iterations required to put cards in a selected order."

If you can sort into four groups then three passes, with careful selection, will order all 52 cards.

Charles Jordan in a method called "The Suits Unscrambled" put the cards into the four suits. However, he only did this with 20 cards - the aces, kings, queens, jacks, and tens.

I find the Jordan handling difficult with a full deck.

Lennart Green's separation is called a 4-separation in some places. I have his videos on video cassettes so I haven't looked at them for a long time. I only recall the sorting to be into two groups. I have experimented with a Green type separation into four groups but the methods I have tried seem clumsy and not good for performance.

Harry Lorayne has "The Great Divide" but I do not know his method and whether it can separate into four groups in one pass. If it can I would be interested to know and might investigate further.

Four three passes into order Ace through King you do as follows:

First Pass

Group 1: A, 5, 9, 13
Group 2: 2, 6, 10
Group 3: 3, 7, J
Group 4: 4, 8, Q

Second Pass - from the ordered deck created from the first pass

Group 1: A, 2, 3, 4
Group 2: 5, 6, 7, 8
Group 3: 9, 10, J, Q
Group 4: K

Third Pass again from the assembled deck

The last time groups are the suits.

There are many variations that will work. For example, you might like to make the second pass into more even groups.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Nikodemus
View Profile
Special user
750 Posts

Profile of Nikodemus
My quick update to this old-is thread re BAIT AND SWITCH -

B&S is an ACAAN routine that depends on you knowing the stack of the deck you s***** in. Therefore to use B&S to s***** in a deck set up for Bannon Triumph, you would need to know the whole of that deck. The first 13 cards are easy - but what about the rest? If you usually use a mem-deck, this will be significantly different.
I suppose you could have all four suits arranged A-K, so long as you don't reveal the faces.

Or you could do some other effect that facilitates a d*** s***** - but then it's no longer Bait & Switch, is it?
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Bannon's Triumph: how to set it up (14 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL