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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Bannon's Triumph: how to set it up (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MC Mirak
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On Jul 25, 2018, ThomasJ wrote:
I’ll sometimes open with Lazy Man’s Card Trick and then use the stack for Play it Straight. Doesn’t solve your problem, but wanted to share for what it’s worth. The spectators will get the impression they shuffled during Lazy Man’s.


Agreed, great idea to leverage the required setup. Culling isn't a problem, ordering is, and loss of ordering really makes the effect less impactful.

I'll go a step forward and recommend mastering Asi Wind's Not-So-Straight Triumph. The name is a play on Bannon's "Play It Straight (Triumph)" (Impossibilia, page 1) and, for those who don't know, The Bannon Triumph is a renaming of The Not-So-Straight Triumph.

Taking all that together, I would recommend doing a deck switch and finishing with Asi Wind's Not-So-Straight Triumph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py4rYLlbR3U
Maestro
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One idea is... you could distribute the clubs throughout the deck in order but with random cards in between. You could spread the cards face up for some pretense, which shows the cards aren't in an obvious order. Then pick up the deck to remove the jokers, and cull the 13 cards in order as you do this.

Not sure if its worth it just one idea.

Also, I don't understand the post that was saying you can get all the cards in order using 3 "passes" on the first page of this topic:

"Four three passes into order Ace through King you do as follows:

First Pass

Group 1: A, 5, 9, 13
Group 2: 2, 6, 10
Group 3: 3, 7, J
Group 4: 4, 8, Q"

Are they talking about culls or something else? Not sure I'd understand without seeing more of an example.
MC Mirak
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Quote:
On Aug 26, 2020, Maestro wrote:
One idea is... you could distribute the clubs throughout the deck in order but with random cards in between. You could spread the cards face up for some pretense, which shows the cards aren't in an obvious order. Then pick up the deck to remove the jokers, and cull the 13 cards in order as you do this.

Not sure if its worth it just one idea.


This is always a good approach. Gambling effects use it all the time like spacing a royal flush out with 3 or 4 cards in-between.

I think a good commercial approach is just a 13-card stack at the top of the face-down deck, flip the deck over and show the first 37 face-up cards are well mixed. Do an overhand shuffle (face-up) with about 30 of those cards, then drop the stack with it's cover cards on top of the shuffled off cards. Now you have shown the cards, done a face-up shuffle, and moved your slug to the middle/lower half of the face-down deck.

You'll notice this is essentially how Bannon writes up the effect, with the set-up just sitting there, which is a bit different from the OP, who asked about getting into it from a shuffled deck.
Nikodemus
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There is an effect by Dani daOrtiz. I can't remember its name. I'm sure it is done from a shuffled deck.
It starts as a standard pick-a-card effect.
Dani makes a big thing of looking through the deck, umming & aaaahing over different cards.
At one point he asked the spectator to remove about 12 cards.
At the end, he finds the selected card (of course)
AND also the spectator's random pile of cards has transformed into all the same suit.

Can't remember what it is called - but the misdirection is masterly
Degio
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I am very happy to see this thread revived. I almost forgot about it!

Quote:
On Sep 8, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
There is an effect by Dani daOrtiz...

Also Juan Tamariz (I believe in Mnemonica) describes an effect where the setup is done in front of the audience by picking cards from a fan.
But you really need to be Tamariz to make that go unnoticed...
MC Mirak
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UF Grant's "Nu Way Out Of This World" uses the same approach as do quite a few other effects (Aldo Columbini's OOTW in Best of All Worlds is another example). A lot of mem deck workers use this approach to restack portions of the deck.

Here's how I would do it: take some cards out, actual random cards (anything but the suit of interest) and lay them face up on the table. Realize you don't want the cards to be face up and turn the pile face down. Then take the suit and lay it down in reverse order, card by card. The dealt pile can be picked up and placed on balance of deck (stack is on top) or you can drop the balance on top of the dealt cards. Say something like "never mind, here, just grab a random card" and progress per the standard handling.

Truth be told, though, I would generally just do a deck switch for something like this if it wasn't the first card effect.
Degio
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Quote:
Truth be told, though, I would generally just do a deck switch for something like this if it wasn't the first card effect.

I fully agree. I normally use this trick as an opener or alternatively I do a simple deck switch (moving from cards to e.g. coins and then back to cards).
But I wanted to check if clever ideas were used and indeed lots of great suggestions came up.
Thanks to all contributors!
Nikodemus
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I've become interested in this topic again recently. A few more thoughts...

1. I don't think it is good to do Bannon Triumph as an opener - a stack is all too obvious explanation. Much better to do it later when the deck is apparently mixed. Maybe you can do some false shuffles to preserve the stack. Or maybe let the spectator shuffle, then do a d--- s-----. Or assemble the stack from FASDIU. Whatever approach you adopt, you want the spectators to believe the deck is in random order.

2. If you designed your own memorised stack, I suppose you could build in a sequence of one suit that was easy to get into the setup for Bannon Triumph.
Alternatively, if you already use a mem deck, you could analyse it to find which suit would most easily be manipulated into the BT setup.

3. Actually I think it is easy enough to get into BT setup from FASDIU anyway. Which was the OP's original question

4. There are plenty of versions of standard Triumph that don't disturb the order of the deck. So if you want to do BT, it makes sense to precede it with standard Triumph once you are in the BT setup. (Obviously doing your reveal with the deck face DOWN, and selection face up!)

5. A Slop Shuffle can be used to undo a riffle shuffle. Therefore your first Triumph could include a riffle shuffle, a display of the mixed cards, and then a slop shuffle to get back to the BT setup.
martyjacobs
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A spectator shuffle sequence is the best way to cancel out the idea of a pre-arrangement. The work of Chad Long, Pit Hartling and Denis Behr springs to mind. I know Denis has explored the idea of using a series of process-heavy tricks to get into a stack. Tricks like "The Tantalizer" from Royal Road work well because, although the cards are not shuffled, the repeated dealing gives the impression that the cards are being mixed randomly. You can also use a partial d**k s****h, which can be very disarming because the cards appear to stay in view the entire time.

In a more formal, parlour setting, I might be tempted to use the Super Shuffle System by Mark Calabrese. The system allows a spectator to complete a series of sloppy shuffles. The hectic mixing also strengthens the inherent "order from chaos" theme of Bannon's superb trick.

I agree with Nikodemus, Vernon's Triumph, and Bannon's work on the plot make perfect bedfellows.
Nikodemus
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Marty,
The idea of following Vernon Triumph with Bannon Triumph is not mine! I have read it many times on the Café (and of course it makes great sense).
My slight twist is to kind of turn the thinking back to front:- if you want to perform Bannon Triumph, it makes sense to precede it with Vernon Triumph. Just a slight change of emphasis.

(I always wash my hands after I use the toilet, but I don't always use the toilet before I wash my hands)
jim ferguson
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The idea of following Vernons Triumph with Play It Straight, is Bannons. He mentions it at the end of the description in Impossibilia.



Jim
martyjacobs
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Hi Jim,

Yes, I'm aware Bannon himself suggested the idea, but thank you for mentioning this for those who don't own the book. Good ideas deserve repeating. He also has similar ideas with Ace Assemblies.

I like the combination because it makes the "mistake" in Play It Straight more believable, especially if both cards are selected one after the other.

Marty
Nikodemus
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Going back to the original question - I think it is pretty easy to do from a shuffled deck.

Several solutions have been mentioned that are all basically the same -
Secret Setup - Giobbi
Either/Or - Guastaferro
Order In Chaos - daOrtiz

I think it is important to end all that process with a bit of drama. Just saying, "and here's your card" hardly justifies pulling out umpteen candidates en route to the revelation!
Therefore I would narrow it down to six cards eventually, and finish with ULTERIOR by John Bannon (the spectator finds their own card).
Wizuriel
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Do people find having the suit in order really adds to the effect? Been following up John Gustaferro's virus with this as finding the virus card gives me tons of time to cull a suit
Nikodemus
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This is a situation where you don't want to undermine the effect just because it happens to make the method easier.
It looks a LOT nicer for the cards to be in sequence. This gives a much stronger sense of you having done something more magical. You have created order from chaos - but there is more order if the cards are in sequence than not. This thread is basically about the fact that it is fairly easy to cull a whole suit, but much harder to get the cards in sequence. Spectators instinctively understand that.

It is also much easier for you to identify which card is missing (and therefore the spectator's selection). The effect would lose its impact if you were saying "here's the Ace, here's the two, where's the three?... ah here it is.....can anyone see the four?..........."

I just watched Virus. It doesn't look like a great way to set up Bannon Triumph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpuAEgy7KXQ

I suggest you look at the tricks I mentioned above. These all involve you searching through the deck for a spectator's selected card. This justifies you removing "candidate" cards, which you return to the deck, until eventually you settle on just one card. (Or six, in the case of Ulterior).
mlippo
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Quote:
On Oct 21, 2021, Wizuriel wrote:
Do people find having the suit in order really adds to the effect? Been following up John Gustaferro's virus with this as finding the virus card gives me tons of time to cull a suit


I was about to ask the same question, but you beat me ...

Mark
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On Oct 22, 2021, Nikodemus wrote:
This is a situation where you don't want to undermine the effect just because it happens to make the method easier.
It looks a LOT nicer for the cards to be in sequence. This gives a much stronger sense of you having done something more magical. You have created order from chaos - but there is more order if the cards are in sequence than not. This thread is basically about the fact that it is fairly easy to cull a whole suit, but much harder to get the cards in sequence. Spectators instinctively understand that.

It is also much easier for you to identify which card is missing (and therefore the spectator's selection). The effect would lose its impact if you were saying "here's the Ace, here's the two, where's the three?... ah here it is.....can anyone see the four?..........."

I just watched Virus. It doesn't look like a great way to set up Bannon Triumph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpuAEgy7KXQ

I suggest you look at the tricks I mentioned above. These all involve you searching through the deck for a spectator's selected card. This justifies you removing "candidate" cards, which you return to the deck, until eventually you settle on just one card. (Or six, in the case of Ulterior).


You certainly have your points here, but I think that culling thirteen cards, in any order is not that difficult.
When you then go into the finale you could start spreading the cards SLOWLY and count the face up Spades (or whichever suit you chose for the effect): "one, two, three, four ...." and raising your voice get to the end of the spread shouting "twelve!". And end saying "and the thirteenth and last card must be your card!".

Righting the face up and face down cards is already a great miracle. The fact that the Spades are in mixed order, just enhances the fact the cards were shuffled before and during the trick.

Mark
Nikodemus
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Hi Mark,
You are entitled to your opinion of course.
My own opinion (just to reiterate) is -
1. It's actually not that hard to get the cards secretly set up in the correct order. The way to do this is NOT to cull them, but to use one of the methods mentioned above. (Secret Setup, Either/Or, Order In Chaos, Ulterior)
2. The effect will be more powerful if you do this.

I think the the thing that will enhance the fact that the cards were shuffled is the brilliant sequence of THREE [genuine] riffle shuffles.

Maybe you could try it both ways and see which gets the best reactions?

Nick
Ferry Gerats
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It might be more comfortable to arrange the setup in two phases. F.i. you start with setting up the 6 to ten with ulterior from Bannon. For the setup of the A to 5, you can use any of the other suggestions but you can also use an effect where the A to 5 are being used, like Larry Jennings’ Larry’s One to Five from Expert Card Mysteries by Alton Sharpe. In case you haven’t got the book, the effect is: the Ace through Five of a suit are being dealt face down in a row on the table. To everyone’s surprise the cards rearrange themselves into a Five to Ace order. Also Jennings’ Ambitious Classic could be used. With the last one you will have a make a minor adjustment to have the cards in the right order. I also recall matching effects with 2 sets of A to 5 with different suits.

The fact that the A to 5 are being seen before Play it straight is being performed, detracts maybe somewhat from the sudden appearance of the f.u. A to 10 with Play it straight. To soften/negate this drawback one can, after having made the setup, first do some other effects that do not interfere with the setup. (Vernon’s triumph)

The fact that in this way only the A to 10 make their appearance instead of the whole suit I do find a negligible disadvantage.

Just my 2 cents.
Nikodemus
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I like the idea of using two (or more?) effects to do the setup.
I agree that the surprise is weakened if one of the effects uses part of the sequence that appears later in Bannon's Triumph. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will deduce what you did. For maximum impact the BT display should appear to come out of nowhere. It is such a powerful effect, it would be a shame to undermine it in any way.
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