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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts 
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For all the Tarot readers I have a question. Do you use convincers?
I have and find that they can help set up the readings. I do not use them all the time only when I feel like it. I have used a couple of ideas from Black Hart and even thought about using the WA as a convincer. I read about using the WA in a Lord Freddie Valentine PDF. Best Ray |
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ManxBull Regular user Isle of Man 116 Posts
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I don't if someone has just asked me for a reading. But if I'm offering readings after a show, I'll usually include a couple of Tarot routines which suggest a suitable affinity with the cards, such as WA, Black Hart's Meet the Reaper (from Black Book IV) or Andrew Normansell's Death Under the Sun.
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weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts
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I don't do Tarot readings so I cannot comment on using convincers for readings; however, I find they work well for funerals. Whenever I hear a family member, at the wake, cry out, "I just can't believe Auntie is dead!" I just lift up the shirt and show the entrails from the autopsy still hanging out of the open wound belly. It definitely makes them a believer that Auntie is dead.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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greerj Loyal user East Tennessee 283 Posts
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I am fairly new at it, but that being said, I don't. I recently worked an event doing readings. I took a couple of convincers to start off with, but as soon as I sat down, a person asked for a reading. Then another, and another, until there were actually people waiting in line. I never did do anything but give readings. I have Lord Freddie's ebooks, and actually had my WA on the table, but never used it all night. Not sure I'll even take them next time.
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scottishpiper51 Regular user of Gris-Gris 138 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2018, weepinwil wrote: I like the cut o' yer jib, weepinwil. A man after my own cold, dead heart. |
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scottishpiper51 Regular user of Gris-Gris 138 Posts
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To address the original post:
I find that, unless used judiciously, convincers can tend to take away from the impact of the reading. I find the best convincer to be a good reading. However, I tend to lean toward a Enrique Enriquez-style approach to reading tarot. |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4696 Posts
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In my experience, convincers are completely unnecessary for a reading.
However, if I was going to use one, here's how I would handle it: First, I would use a "marked" deck. I haven't seen many full decks (78 cards) with all the cards marked. Typically, marked decks are just the Major Arcana. Therefore, I would probably just confine myself to a three-card reading (past/present/future). I would deal out the three cards face down and reveal each in turn as I interpret them. Because I know the identity of all three cards, I can do a little foreshadowing as the reading progresses. By knowing the next card(s), I can emphasize a particular aspect of the meaning of a card that will fit with the upcoming cards. As a final "convincer," I might mention while interpreting the second card that the best possible outcome would be if the __________ card appeared in the reading. The blank just happens to be the name of the third and final card. I would pretend to be just as amazed as the querent when the third card was revealed. Essentially, I am still performing genuine readings; I just have access to hidden information that I can exploit as I "weave" the narrative of the reading together, without seemingly knowing the identity of the upcoming cards. Subtlety is key here.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Lucien Astor Special user Sunken R'lyeh 661 Posts
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I use "enhanced" readings. These are unique spreads that I have designed for legitimate readings. They do have strange and unnatural moments of synchronicity & serendipity constructed into them without losing the integrity of a Tarot reading.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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No.
I've asked to be banned
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18028 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2018, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote: Do you think a reading may have been more effective if YOU"D have had the option to force a card .. Say a friend has a drinking problem and he really needs to talk about it????? So maybe a Fool or some card to get the reading headed in the correct direction???? 
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Woodfield Special user 758 Posts
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If you need those things (convincers, enhancers) in your readings, you probably
- don't trust your ability to interpret your chosen oracle - don't trust you intuition - are doing it to stroke your own ego |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts
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I do not use convincers in my readings, but I have often done routines that involve readings; depending on your POV that could amount to the same thing.
The basic example I used to use all the time, and still do, is having someone glimpse a card and then giving them a reading/reveal. In that case I consider the reading to be real/legit and the reveal can be whatever the participant interprets it as (i.e. Maybe intuition, maybe part of the reading, maybe a magic trick with a meaningful reading attached). For a sit down, 30 or 60 minute reading, I don't think I would do it personally. I don't really know how it would fot into the reading (I've had many ideas over the years, but they don't ever feel right), and generally people wanting a full reading have a specific need/interest/focus and don't want to spend time with other stuff (that's just my own thoughts). I also find a constant stream of synchonicities in most readings, so they kind of act as convincers in and of themselves. For those who use convincers, when do you use them? I could imagine a Ron Martin style, off-the--cuff "throwaway" thing at the beginning ("hey, before the reading, I'm curious could you just... ...interesting, because...") That sounds fun to me, and like it could be a nice set up for a reading, but again; that's that much less time for the reading (maybe I just talk too much!)
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2018, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote: That's really good, I love it.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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A well done reading is really its own convincer. I don't have the resources mentioned here for trickery, but I don't see how any tricks can make a tarot reading more meaningful than it already is.
The thing I would suggest is proper theater for the reading. By this, I mean make a little ritual of it. Treat your cards with respect. Have a special surface you place them on when you read. Wrap them up in a cloth afterward. That sort of thing. It helps create a sense of this being something very special. Ron Martin and Richard Webster (and probably a thousand other folks) have written about this. In a sense, I think it acts as a convincer before the fact, rather than a trick to drive home your amazing abilities. -Patrick |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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Honesty is the best convincer...
I've asked to be banned
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ManxBull Regular user Isle of Man 116 Posts
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I think a lot also depends upon how you personally view the cards and how you present yourself. I only offer short 5 card readings after a bizarre magic show, and I tell people right from the outset that these are offered as fun entertainment only, in the spirit of a carnival fortune teller. So employing a little trickery is all part of that entertainment. Because nobody should be basing their life decisions on this stuff.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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Yeah, within a performance, I would agree, anything goes if it's clear that the reading is also part of that performance...
Otherwise, no ..I feel that it invalidates the nature of the reading, not that it is mystical or psychic, but that it's a game at best...and no one likes those that cheat to win in a game...
I've asked to be banned
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Djin Regular user 191 Posts
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This is a fascinating discussion. I can see how an effect could add impact, and I can see how one could cross that line to absurdity.
In my opinion, the more subtle the better. Foreshadowing the next card may add to a reading where (say, for example) incorporating invisible thread or flash paper into a reading would almost certainly be ridiculous. At the risk of flogging a thoroughly dead horse, some magician's techniques just don't translate well. |
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Mr Timothy Gray.jpg "View Profile") Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts
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Never.
A good tarot-reading is pure magic. Anything added stinks of fraud. Honest, human connection, without any trappings, is a rare thing. I'm currently writing a pamphlet on this very topic.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts
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How many here use the psychological tool called 'mirroring' to establish rapport with the sitter?
Ray |
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Posted: Aug 14, 2018 03:14 am 
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