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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Hypnosis vs Pseudo Hypnosis (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Senor Fabuloso
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Elimagic, the BS that you have to be trained as a hypnotist to be entertaining is hogwash. Giving the illusion of hypnotism to the AUDIENCE is the same as true hypnotism. THEY don't know the difference. It is like mentalism. You don't have to actually be psychic, to have a good show. The main problem in this forum is that you have two self proclaim EXPERTS who think there is only one way to be in show business. Acting is what we all do. Be it magic, mentalism, hypnosis, comedy or whatever. Does it help if you know something about actual hypnosis, maybe? But again from the perspective of your audience, it really doesn't matter.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
WitchDocChris
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Quote:
Giving the illusion of hypnotism to the AUDIENCE is the same as true hypnotism.


No, it isn't.

Quote:
THEY don't know the difference.


Yes, they do.

Relying upon ignorant audiences is foolish, and assuming an audience won't know the difference is just insulting their intelligence.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Senor Fabuloso
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
Quote:
Giving the illusion of hypnotism to the AUDIENCE is the same as true hypnotism.


No, it isn't.

Quote:
THEY don't know the difference.


Yes, they do.

Relying upon ignorant audiences is foolish, and assuming an audience won't know the difference is just insulting their intelligence.


Proof?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Elimagic, the BS that you have to be trained as a hypnotist to be entertaining is hogwash. Giving the illusion of hypnotism to the AUDIENCE is the same as true hypnotism. THEY don't know the difference. It is like mentalism. You don't have to actually be psychic, to have a good show. The main problem in this forum is that you have two self proclaim EXPERTS who think there is only one way to be in show business. Acting is what we all do. Be it magic, mentalism, hypnosis, comedy or whatever. Does it help if you know something about actual hypnosis, maybe? But again from the perspective of your audience, it really doesn't matter.


Do you perform hypnosis shows for money?

How about showing us a clip of the things you proclaim here being a success so we all understand what you are talking about. The problem is us and we just don't see it.

You have juat asked Chris for proof of what he said. Only seems fair you provide proof as well.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Senor Fabuloso
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My proof is simple and was illustrated in my post. Sorry you missed it.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
WitchDocChris
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It's logic, really.

People who go to hypnosis shows are probably interested in hypnosis. Which means they've probably, at the least, seen genuine demonstrations of hypnosis. It's blatantly obvious when someone is not hypnotized and the performer is just spouting nonsense claiming it's hypnosis to anyone with even a limited amount of experience in the subject.

Making the claim of hypnosis means you have to conform to what the audience believes hypnosis is, or you have to re-educate them before doing the demonstration. ie: The "lecture" that generally comes at the beginning of a hypnosis show. If the performer believes that pseudo-hypnosis and hypnosis look the same to the audience, they aren't likely to give the lecture, so they're going to fail to meet the expectations of the audience.

On top of all that - people talk afterward. Particularly for hypnosis shows. The first thing the subject is going to say is, "I was just going along with it, they didn't hypnotize me."

Just like saying that a collection of magic tricks is mentalism doesn't make it mentalism, just saying something is hypnosis is not going to make that claim believable.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Senor Fabuloso
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What's logical is that audiences don't know anything about hypnosis and are coming from a place of what they have seen in movies and TV shows. ACTING. So one can tell anyone anything and so long as they make it believable, it will fly. (See P. T. Barnum for details) Again I use the example of mentalism. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE PSYCHIC POWERS TO BE AN ENTERTAINING MENTALIST. The same is true of Hypnosis or any performing art. Now before you say that musicians have to know their instruments or they can't fool the audience, take lip syncing as an example. One can play a track behind the senses and give the impression they are playing. Most non musicians wouldn't have a clue. It's done all the time in the theater, when an actor need to play an instrument they can't play.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Dannydoyle
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And when the audience finds out they are horribly disappointed. Thank you for making the point.

So can you show us video of you putting your theory into practice?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WitchDocChris
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You have a ton more faith in the average person's ability to act convincingly than I do.

You go ahead and keep pretending to hypnotize people, then, if it's working so well for you. I'll stick with the real thing, as it's far easier anyway.
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Senor Fabuloso
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On Oct 30, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
You have a ton more faith in the average person's ability to act convincingly than I do.


I'm not talking about average persons, I'm talking about people in show business. The best lairs in the world. Hypnotricks work and so long as they are presented as hypnosis, the participant wouldn't know the difference.

Are you honestly saying that a participant knows the differences between and actual psychic experience and one presented by a mentalist? If they do? It's because the mentalist isn't any good. Same would be true of the pseudo hypnotist. Performers gentlemen, that's what we are. That's what we do. And just like a good salesman can sell anything so to can a good performer sell himself and his show.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Dannydoyle
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What is an actual psychic experience? I have never seen one personally.

And do you have video so we can see this theory in action? It would really help to see it to visualize because I'm having trouble with that.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Senor Fabuloso
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Actually I do Danny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIMxjr3n5U this is but one hypnotrick I've done to great success. Omit the band and replace hypnobable for understanding.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Aug 29, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is an interesting turn that I hope continues.


You knew it was too good to last, lol. For Elimagic, the op, now you can see all information offered by members here are not created equal - some are base don actual fact and experience, others on opinions (usually misguided, uninformed, or trolling), so it is important to decide who and what you choose to listen to, accept and distinguish as real, helpful or beneficial.

This is also what happens when you mix amateurs, hobbyists, wannabes, and know-it-alls with actual working professionals and industry insiders. Huge difference.

Some of us work hard and take great pride in keeping this place on-topic and informational. Others don't respect that and just prefer to further their own personal agendas. These guys are easily identified because they speak from no true professional experience and almost always post links to off-topic or the work of others in a desperate attempt to be taken seriously. The next thing that occurs is they will try to attack and tear down those with actual information and advice based on experience and knowledge. It is a recurring recipe as you will soon discover.
WitchDocChris
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Actually I do Danny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIMxjr3n5U this is but one hypnotrick I've done to great success. Omit the band and replace hypnobable for understanding.


I'm assuming that's not you? Right? You're pulling a random video off the web because you don't have any?

So, what you're telling me is that you believe that you can pull a committee of volunteers out of an audience and on stage, and perform a complete fake hypnosis show that will convince the majority of the seated audience that it's genuine hypnosis?
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Actually I do Danny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIMxjr3n5U this is but one hypnotrick I've done to great success. Omit the band and replace hypnobable for understanding.


So please show us video of YOU actually doing it.

If you don't think an intelligent audience knows the difference the only one fooled is you.

Do you perform hypnosis shows for money? The reason I ask is to simply qualify your answers. It is not a bad thing if you do not. It is simply a different perspective is all and I'm trying to understand your point of view.

I have always said that while I deal in deception, what I do NOT deal in is self deception.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Actually I do Danny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIMxjr3n5U this is but one hypnotrick I've done to great success. Omit the band and replace hypnobable for understanding.


I'm assuming that's not you? Right? You're pulling a random video off the web because you don't have any?

So, what you're telling me is that you believe that you can pull a committee of volunteers out of an audience and on stage, and perform a complete fake hypnosis show that will convince the majority of the seated audience that it's genuine hypnosis?


Here is the kicker Chris. He doesn't get that in some ways I agree. Dr. Q is a good example.

The reason I as for his frame of reference is not to degrade his opinion but understand his point of view.

When I was headlining comedy clubs 50 weeks a year about 14 shows a week it occured to me that not every show goes 100% as planned. For whatever reason people or me are off and a show MUST happen. So you have a LOT of time to fill and very little ability to do it well with those volunteers so now what? Walking off is simply NOT an option.

Enter my emergency show. It is nowhere near as good and it "passes" at a cursory glance for hypnosis. BUT no a smart audience is not fooled in The least. It must be done to get the show moving because when you are being paid there is no choice.

So I was hoping that instead of pontificating and arguing we could discuss like adults. BUT that option seems to have been taken off the table. Sorry as this can be a useful topic of what to do when something does not go as planned. BUT I'll give everyone a hint. Just claiming things are hypnosis that are not is not the secret.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Senor Fabuloso
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The only person in this forum I would even consider listening to now is Danny as he get a bit of what I'm talking about. Chris, if I have a video? I can't post it here, as I've talked about my work outside of performing and it would be a breach of security. I'm sure you understand Smile
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
WitchDocChris
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Of course - one has to have a backup plan for any program of entertainment. Eventually Murphy will step in and it's going to be a rough night.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
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