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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » How hard does Scotch and Soda "hit"? (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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videoman
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Just a quick comparison of Captain and Coke 2.0 and the standard Scotch and Soda gaffs.
They each have their strengths and weaknesses. As with many things you may have to sacrifice one thing in order to gain something else.
IMO, the negative reviews of C&C are from people wanting to "have it all".

Advantages of C&C:
The gimmick can be reset very quickly and silently, practically right in front of your spectator.
It uses common coins (a quarter and a penny) rather than coins most people have never seen.
Because of the ease of reset, you can easily carry this on you without it having to be pre-set and then have it ready to go in an instant.
You don't need to "squeeze" the gaff together in order to lock it.

Advantages of S&S:
The gaff can be examined closely without a switch.
It uses unusual coins since most younger folks have probably never seen a half dollar much. This can be an advantage if you wish to make it part of your presentation.

S&S gaff is held together by friction. This means you need a bang ring to separate them. The advantage to this is that it can usually (depending on the quality) be examined quite closely.

But for me C&C has the advantage due to the ease of set up and carrying with you. I also prefer the more "normal" coins used.
But because of the way it's made it can't be examined very closely, BUT because of the way you use it it doesn't need to be. Many beginners just compare the looks of the gaffs as they come out of the package and do not take into consideration how they are typically used.

With C&C you don't need to squeeze the gaff. This may sound like a small point but it is the most common mistake people make when performing this routine with a S&S gaff. They don't try and mask the squeeze. Once the coins are in the specs hands behind their back you ask them (as part of the usual test of their tactile abilities) if they can determine by feel alone which coin is the quarter, and then you ask them to hand it to you. The quality of the gaff is not that important as they only get a glimpse of it going into your hand and you can immediately turn it good side up if need be. No heat is on it at this point as you haven't even done anything yet in their mind. Now all their attention is on what they believe to be the penny, you have all the time in the world to switch the quarter. They then bring out the dime and you hand them back the matching quarter.

True, it is an advantage with S&S that they never have to let go of the first coin but for me (just my opinion) the switch is so easy and so undetected that the other advantages of C&C far outweigh this one advantage of S&S.

Anyway, I took the time to explain all this so people who see the negative reviews of C&C might take them with a grain of salt.
Now the bad news, C&C has been out of stock everywhere for a long time and is not available anymore, unless you find a private party willing to sell you their copy.

But just for the record I thought these points should be mentioned. And C&C will probably be re-released (C&C 3.0?) by someone at some point in the future but no telling when that will be.
Bob G
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Can anyone recommend a well-made version of S&S that could safely be examined by a spectator? There are several threads about this, but none are very recent. I'm curious to hear the experience of people who bought the trick recently, since the quality of companies' products change over time.


Thanks,


Bob
Mb217
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Hey BG, I would think the S&S from Johnson's would be more than good enough for what you use it for. Their products stand the test of time and are always well made for a great price. Think this is about $30 bucks on their website. It's all you need, if it's something you just have to have, as most magicians have at one time or another along the journey. Smile
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
will lane
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Quote:
On Jan 12, 2019, Bob G wrote:
Can anyone recommend a well-made version of S&S that could safely be examined by a spectator? There are several threads about this, but none are very recent. I'm curious to hear the experience of people who bought the trick recently, since the quality of companies' products change over time.


Thanks,


Bob
I actually did end up buying S&S from Johnson, and as Mb said, it is a great set. When I saw the coins nested for the first time, I thought "no way..." It looks perfect. They could look at the coin all day and not figure it out. The only way the spec could ever notice anything is if they had a real half dollar for comparison and the coins were tapped against each other. The centavo lost its shine kind of quick but that is not a big deal.
Bob G
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Much appreciated, Mb and Will. Real centavos lose their shine too, so I guess that's a convincer. Smile


Bob
Dollarbill
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PM'd you Bob. WillLane if you're using a coin holder it is probably the reason for the color change.
funsway
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On Sep 16, 2018, Theodore Lawton wrote:
I believe Bill Palmer shared a scotch and soda routine that doesn't use a gimmick. It's fairly easy with practice. I don't have access to the notes at this time-everything is packed up to move. Maybe ask him about it.


It is worth studying/mastering this approach whether you prefer the gaff or not. The "power" of SS comes from timing and audience engagement as much as the surprise/astonishment.

Personally, I never do SS unless it is part of a larger routine with other uses of those coins. I never like it when a performer pulls out two strange coins, does a trick, then brings out some different objects for the next trick. Never let the beauty of a gaff/gimmick overcome the basic need to eliminate all suspicion and conclusions other than "must be magic."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Bob G
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Ken,


This is a good point. Do you have any suggestions for a trick or two -- suitable for one who has almost no experience with coins -- that would be good to do before SS?



Nice to hear from you.


Bob
Dollarbill
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On Jan 13, 2019, Bob G wrote:
Ken,


This is a good point. Do you have any suggestions for a trick or two -- suitable for one who has almost no experience with coins -- that would be good to do before SS?



Nice to hear from you.


Bob



Stick w/ S&S....
funsway
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On Jan 13, 2019, Bob G wrote:
Ken,

This is a good point. Do you have any suggestions for a trick or two -- suitable for one who has almost no experience with coins -- that would be good to do before SS?

Bob


write me ken@eversway.com as there will be too much detail for this public forum.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Bob G
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Thanks, Ken, I'll do that.
Bob G
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DB, I posted a message in response to your "stick to S&S" -- but I must have forgotten to hit Submit. Grrr...



Anyway, the gist was that I understand your point -- you suggested S&S as an opener so I could start with something self-working and powerful to calm myself down. Meanwhile, Ken always has interesting ideas, so I've emailed him to find out his thoughts. One idea I had was to perform S&S *first*, and *then* perform another trick or two with the S&S coins (in their transformed condition). Or, if I feel like it's overwhelming to try to learn additional coin tricks at this point, I'll just stick to S&S!



This is the only forum I've ever participated in -- it's amazing what you can learn when there are all these smart, experienced people making suggestions.


See you,


Bob
Wx4usa
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It’s very powerful Will, as for quick reset I can use the back of my wrist instead of a table in walk around. I use a quarter since it’s so different in size and color. Can use a Sacajawea dollar too. Glad you got it.
I used to fumble this and this helped..... It is very important to show the 2 coins and state your challenge. Over under a few times. Notice the slight variation in size.... think you can tell the difference? Then have them hold out their hand, make your move, place the coins on their hand and fold their fingers over, hold their hand shut, instruct them about moving hand behind their back and placing one coin in each hand. Release their hand and show yours empty, they bring theirs forward one coin in each hand. Open the hand with the bigger coin. Now open the hand with the copper coin.....oooops you thief. Where’s my copper coin.....and.... Magic ! A great effect. I used to lay the spare on top of my shoe Smile oh there it is.
Wx4usa
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Oh forgot to mention, get one of those little rubber 75 cent coin purses to hold it in. Ready to go with ring, half with quarter or Susan b or Sacajawea sandwiched and peso coin all inside. Fits nicely in your pocket. I have several S&S so I can rotate and easily reset on the back of my wrist in a pinch.
Dollarbill
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On Jan 27, 2019, Wx4usa wrote:
Oh forgot to mention, get one of those little rubber 75 cent coin purses to hold it in. Ready to go with ring, half with quarter or Susan b or Sacajawea sandwiched and peso coin all inside. Fits nicely in your pocket. I have several S&S so I can rotate and easily reset on the back of my wrist in a pinch.


I always used one of them wayyyy overpriced leather coin purses. They do work great, but..... and use to also carry both usually in my back pockets my CSB in another one as to not croud my front pockets. Im not arguing here. I'm just sayin' 🙂. And where do you get a $.75 cent coin purse? 🙂.
videoman
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You can get rubber coin purses here for 75 cents. Well, you do have to buy 1000 of them so that's one downside. 😀

https://www.epromos.com/samples/request?......rdfD_BwE
Wx4usa
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They were on clearance at the dollar store. Picked up several. Smile
Corey Harris
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I do Bill Palmers ungimmicked S&S and have for years. So I will sometimes use dollar size coins or half dollar size depending. Always used it as kind of an ice break or at the start of a coin set.
Mb217
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I remember Bill's wonderful ungimmicked S&S from many years back now, he made it available to anyone that asked for it....Wondeful man and magician. Smile

He will always be remembered for such a kind gesture for a real good option as to a really good piece of magic. Smile

Happy to see people still using it. Way ta go, Corey. Smile
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Dollarbill
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On Jan 28, 2019, Mb217 wrote:
I remember Bill's wonderful ungimmicked S&S from many years back now, he made it available to anyone that asked for it....Wondeful man and magician. Smile

He will always be remembered for such a kind gesture for a real good option as to a really good piece of magic. Smile

Happy to see people still using it. Way ta go, Corey. Smile


Is Bill not with us anymore?
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