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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Diagonal palm shift (34 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Javi
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So I have been working on the diagonal palm shift but I have a problem with it I always make a weird sound that I think reveals the trick I know that with enough miss direction I can keep working with the trick but I would love some tips to do it better.
magicfish
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Where did you learn It?
Poof-Daddy
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Considering Stopping At Exactly
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I would look more into getting the move down properly first, instead of trying to cover a "mistake" (the noise) with misdirection. It is not an easy move although I always respect it when people work to get it down well enough to use it. People have several problems with finger positions, tells, timing... I have no idea where noise would come from unless you are just maybe using too much pressure as it exits the rest of the deck. Is that "when" the noise occurs?

Magicfish has a good point too. Are you learning from EATCT or a YouTube video? That makes a big difference. Dan and Dave have an excellent teaching video done by Ricky Smith ($10) and one by John Carney ($5) on their art of magic site. I have the Ricky Smith one and it is very very detailed and well worth more than $10 in my opinion.
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andre.eighty
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The noise also known as the "click", I believe is a common issue when learning the diagonal palm shift. I know I had it when I was learning it. To my understanding it is usually when the card does not clear the deck fully as you are getting the card into palm. In my case I was trying to palm the card too early, bending the card a bit as the card was trying to clear the deck and that would create/make the noise/click.

Some tips I was given or learned along the way, was to make sure the card is as straight as possible and let the card clear the deck, THEN get it into the palm position. Hope that makes sense and hope that helps. Good luck on your quest in acquiring an excellent DPS!
Javi
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I am learning it from Chris Ramsay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gTAhbN69lU the explanation its pretty good I believe that my problem is exactly what andre.eighty is saying I will try practice more and give a look at the videos that you are telling me poof daddy thanks to all
fonda57
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Why not learn Juan Tamirez?
I j
andre.eighty
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If that is your sole source of learning the diagonal palm shift, I would highly recommend reading the description of it in The Expert At The Card Table; it is described very nicely. It addresses the issue I described, not directly, but if you follow the description it should solve your problem. If you do not have a copy of the book already, I believe it is ready available, free. I know I got the bible ebook version off the conjuring arts website a few years back.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Oct 6, 2018, Javi wrote:
I am learning it from Chris Ramsay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gTAhbN69lU the explanation its pretty good I believe that my problem is exactly what andre.eighty is saying I will try practice more and give a look at the videos that you are telling me poof daddy thanks to all

No. Study the original, practice...a lot. Then, seek counsel. YouTube will wreck you.
Vogler
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Study a move from the original source..I can´t really understand how people trust anyone who has a youtube channel to teach them...I learned the DPS exclusively from the book. it is an excellent description.
Steven Leung
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found the Magic Rainbow after
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You might wanna check tutorial say from John Carney, David Williamson, and Jason England on this sleight in particular and see what you might missed. Also you might want to learn Tamariz Perpendicular Control by Maestro Juan Tamariz in his A1 DVD, out-of-print Sonata and also various source as well...
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Cain
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After you tame the click, eliminate finger flutter, learn the angles, and finally motivate the action, you can safely show it to your magic buddies because chances are you won't have any other use for it. Good luck!
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merlin5150 II
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Quote:
On Oct 8, 2018, Cain wrote:
After you tame the click, eliminate finger flutter, learn the angles, and finally motivate the action, you can safely show it to your magic buddies because chances are you won't have any other use for it. Good luck!

Well, that was purposeful....he’s new and learning, he’ll figure out in time what’s worth learning or not. Can you elaborate on why you think it’s a waste of time for him to work on this?
Blindside785
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Https://youtu.be/RPfRBA2lTos

Here is my free lesson on a use I have for it.
Javi
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Quote:
On Oct 8, 2018, Cain wrote:
After you tame the click, eliminate finger flutter, learn the angles, and finally motivate the action, you can safely show it to your magic buddies because chances are you won't have any other use for it. Good luck!


Why do you think it is not a good effect to do to a random espectator I think its pretty good.
Cain
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On Oct 9, 2018, merlin5150 II wrote:
Can you elaborate on why you think it’s a waste of time for him to work on this?


Because there is almost always a superior alternative. There was a thread about this some months ago.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
Cain
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On Oct 10, 2018, Javi wrote:
Why do you think it is not a good effect to do to a random espectator I think its pretty good.


What do you mean by a "good effect"? What are you planning on using it for? In a majority of cases, you can probably substitute it with the Perpendicular Control. But why bother, right? The stupid Perpendicular Control allows you to separate the insertion from the take, and it uses the deck for cover. And it does not make noise. In essence, it's easier, which means it's worse.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
Javi
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I like to use it in a card to pocket trick, but if you think its better where can I find a good place to learn the perpendicular control, Also on the expert ar the card table?
Dorian Rhodell
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Like many things, the DPS DOES have a time and place and in some cases can not be beaten in terms of directness. For instance, suppose I wanted to have someone replace a selected card only to produce it from my pocket. The spectator places the card in the front and goes directly out the back. No other sleight can accomplish that without an extra action be it a cut and a palm or a spread etc.
Look up Paul Chosse's posts here on the Café. He had the work and many considered him to be the finest proponent of the move extant.

But here's a tip. Keep the card and the deck on the same plane.

Best,

Dorian
Cain
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Quote:
On Oct 13, 2018, Dorian Rhodell wrote:
Like many things, the DPS DOES have a time and place and in some cases can not be beaten in terms of directness. For instance, suppose I wanted to have someone replace a selected card only to produce it from my pocket. The spectator places the card in the front and goes directly out the back. No other sleight can accomplish that without an extra action be it a cut and a palm or a spread etc.


What about a side-steal? Not only does a side-steal offer superior cover, but it's more direct and more efficient. Instead of pulling a card through the pack and rotating it out the back, you steal it from the side (less distance traveled). That said, in most circumstances, you do NOT want to steal the card right away because that is typically a moment of heightened attention. The pause in the TPC is a feature, not a bug. It allows a moment of relaxation ("the pause that convinces"). You can spread through the pack and say, for example, that you "know the card is slightly above center, and definitely not on the top or bottom, but to make things more fair, give 'em a cut." *palm the card* "What the hell, cut 'em again."

Similarly, when palming a card it's more "efficient" to reach directly into your pocket; the problem is that it's not typically as deceptive. Instead you'll often want your arm to fall dead for a moment. Unfortunately, the "time and place" for the DPS is at the magic club. The DPS is mechanically interesting, but it's a crap move with unforgiving angles.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
Steven Keyl
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I have never seen a side steal and thought it was anything other than a side steal. That move is not for me. If I don't like how it looks performed by the best of the best, there's no way I'd be able to improve upon it. That doesn't mean I'm going to slag the move, just because I don't personally like it.

Is it possible, Cain, that this move just isn't for you?

For those on the fence about the move itself, I posted a quick demo for two reasons. First, to show that the move is viable. And second, to remind folks that you don't have to do that old frontal insertion of the card in order to get it securely into DPS position. The spec can put it back themselves. They can even do it from a fan (not demo'd).
Now, before this turns into a slagfest on my technique, let me qualify a few things. I'm a below average card worker. My technique sucks, my execution of this move sucks, prior to shooting this video I hadn't performed the DPS in months. There's nothing about my execution that is noteworthy. The larger point is that if someone of even average ability uses this move, think of how much better it would look in their hands.

Is the move viable? Is it deceptive? Would it fly in context of a proper trick? You decide.

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