Hi everybody,


I'm working on getting a break under the top two cards of a full deck by the method of pushing the top two cards to the right and then pulling them back in again. (I posted about this recently in another thread.) Recently I've been trying Giobbi's suggestion (on one of the CC DVD's) of pushing the bottom right corners out by turning the two cards on a pivot -- the pivot being the right forefinger. I can do it sometimes, but not consistently.


Yesterday, after practicing the Biddle move with half a deck, I absently started trying the two-card push-off just described, and it was *easy*! So I wonder if I've stumbled across a way to learn the move: start with half the deck, then move to three-quarters, then the full deck. I'm going to be trying that over the coming days -- we'll see if it helps. In the meantime, I wondered if anyone else has tried this and what their experience has been.


Regards,


Bob

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand you suggestion by Giobbi. I have the dvd and I know CC by heart, but I don’t get it.

The pinky count is by far the best method. And there is means to improve it a lot compared to (for exemple) the execution of Darwin Ortiz.

Darwin Ortiz' teaching of the pinky count is how I learned it, and I find his teaching to be superb

Rachmaninov and fonda77,


Thanks for your suggestions. I can do a pinky count. My main problems with it is that I find it hard to get the cards, especially the second one, to come up quickly. Which works of Ortiz did you learn it from?



I'm still practicing the pinky count, but I'd also like to learn the double pushover method of getting a break under two cards. Rachmaninov, could you be more specific about what you didn't follow? (Or maybe what I wrote was just mush. Anyway, I'd be happy to try to clarify, but it would help if I knew specifically what you didn't follow.) I *think* Giobbi describes his method in the section on the DL. (The specific method I tried to describe is on the DVD but not in the book.) I've also seen Daryl use the method in his Encyclopedia of Card Sleights.



By the way, fonda 57, for some reason I seem to remember that you live in Chicago? I was born there, and did most of my growing up in Evanston.



Bob

Here's where I learned about the one-handed double push-off I was trying to describe: it's in the first of the four Card College disks, in the section on breaks, just after 5:20. Giobbi actually demonstrates how to get a break under to top card, not the top two cards, and at the moment I referenced, he attributes the method of using the left first finger as a pivot or fulcrum to Dai Vernon.


Of course, that's just the top card. What Daryl demonstrated, very quickly, and what I'm trying to learn, is the same technique for two cards. So I'm pushing the top card to the right using my left thumb, and then using the first joint (more or less) of that thumb to push off the second card to the right also. But I'm also pushing the two cards upward so that they contact the first finger. That forces the lower right corners of the two cards to swing to the right, making it easy to pull the cards back on to the deck while catching a pinky break.


I hope that makes sense -- I think it will if you watch Giobbi's DVD.


Bob

Bob g--I live in Evanston

Fonda57, I hope you enjoy it. The lake, Northwestern, the trees... it was a great place to be a kid and a teenager.

Andi Gladwin has a 2 dvd set called "The Master Pushoff" that does basically the same thing (he credits Marlo) He pushes the top 2 cards without and get ready and can get a break or go right into a double.
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/......pushoff/

Hi Bob,
Check back with Giobbi on CC videos. You will find he also does a break under one while showing the top card. I know this is different than what you stated but it is a good option and is very user friendly.

Bob, I don't know if it's what you're after but I posted a couple of years ago a short video demontrating multiple pushoffs (from 1 to 7 cards). It uses the mechanics of the Push-Off Second Deal described in Hugard's Expert Card Technique.

That's very impressive, Claudio. After literally years of practice, I can now do a push-off double lift and second deal. Once you had the double-deal mastered, did it take very long to learn to push-off 3-7 cards?

Thanks

Claudio, Wow! I'm with lemonjug in being impressed. I don't understand how you're accomplishing what you're doing, but it's effective and graceful.


Lemonjug, Given my own experience, I'm not surprised that it took your years of practice to master the push-off DL.


Countrymaven, If I understand you correctly, you're talking about the method of removing the top card from the deck, and using that as misdirection to get a break under the second card from the top; then replace the original top card on the deck, and you're set up for a DL. Giobbi does that, as you say, in another section of his DVD, and I noticed that Michael Ammar does the same thing in his performance of Chicago Opener on Easy to Master Card Miracles. Since I'm getting pretty good at the single-card pushover and pull-back to create a break, I'm going to try Chicago Opener.


Poof-Daddy, thanks for the reference. This is a happy circumstance: someone recommending a resource that I already own!! Thus no further outlay of cash. I tried following Andi Gladwin's DVD's and had tremendous difficulty. But that was over a year ago, and my fingers have gotten smarter since then with all the practicing I've been doing. So I think the disks are worth a second look.



I'd still like to learn the technique I described, in which the top two cards pivot off of the first finger. I'll try my proposed practice strategy (of starting with a half-deck) and let people know how it goes.


Bob

Thanks Lemonjug. Once you're very comfortable with a push-off second deal the hardest work is done; afterwards it's just a matter of adjusting the pressure of your thumb. The trickiest part was to be able to push off 6 or 7 cards with regularity as the feeling between 6 and 7 is hardly perceptible (for me anyway).

I worked on this when I wanted to perform Dai Vernon's Running The Scale with perfect accuracy. Using a pinky count might be easier though.

Thanks for the tips, Claudio. I'm going to work on this.

Ok BobG, now it makes sense. I think this technique is only amongst the 4 or 5 I discarded from the entire CC course. I think the pinky count method is so far superior. I learned it from Bernard Bilis and the CC course. And I made some improvements on it. The Darwin Ortiz way of doing it is a little contrived. But admittedly it is hard to do with a relaxed hand and wrist. Just a hint to improve it : make the technique while doing circles motion with your wrist. It is not easy at first, but after a while, the overall picture is more natural during the execution of the technique.

I’ve never been a fan of this technique from Hugard ECT, it is not so natural. But Claudio, wow ! That’s an awesome demonstration of skill, very impressive how you can feel the difference between 5 and 6, between 6 and 7. Are you relying a little on sight too or is it by pure feel only ?

Rachmaninov, I'm glad I was able to convey to you what I'm working on. The thing I like about the pushover technique is that it's very fast, so it requires only a moment of misdirection (ideally -- I'm still working on building up speed).



I like the pinky count,and continue to practice it, but even after lots of practice I can't do it very quickly. I have a question about your idea of moving the wrist in circles. Wouldn't that just draw more attention to the left hand when you want the attention elsewhere?



Oh -- and I agree with you about CC -- it's wonderful, isn't it. I don't think I'll ever read the whole thing the way you have -- it's massive.

What is it you find unnatural in the ECT second deal? It's described with a full grip (if I remember correctly) but I find it easier to perform with a Mechanic's grip.

Yes, it's all by touch.

Claudio, I’ve just tried to do a 2, 3, 4 push off with a good help of sight. It seems manageable up to 4 or 5. But above and with consistency and reliability, only by touch, wow !

Bob G,
The wrist motion is for training session only ! For training purposes, generally speaking, it’s very useful to conceive and do drills which have some emphasize on specific points. Those drills are sometimes rather far from the actual technique but they help to do it better. Music instruments are a very good example in this regard. Alfred Cortot who was a great French pianist was an even greater teacher. For example, you can find some studies on Chopin scores and you will discover (even if you know nothing to piano) how far he goes in the conception of exercices. The principle is first to identify and isolate the difficulty (not so easy in magic) and work on this element only. While not forgetting to do the whole piece regularly during the session in order to not lose the global result you try to achieve.

Yes CC is so great, during some sessions, I’m doing the entire course with cards in hands. After years, I know the course by heart, and still find some improvements and ideas.

Oh Bob, you are right, at the same level skill, double push off is quicker than the pinky count. You need a little time to count with the pinky in a reliable way.