The Magic Cafť
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ Who would get the money in a real game? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Maestro
View Profile
Special user
801 Posts

Profile of Maestro
Who would win the money in a real cash game, Harry Lorayne or Daniel Madison?

Thanks,
Maestro
ssibal
View Profile
Loyal user
253 Posts

Profile of ssibal
What game? Who else ( if anyone ) is playing?
Peterson
View Profile
Regular user
154 Posts

Profile of Peterson
Doc
Gamblingman007
View Profile
New user
43 Posts

Profile of Gamblingman007
Harry couldnít get the money, Daniel Madison Iím not sure if he really ever played. Doc used to be able to get the money but since he havenít played in a while Iím not sure if he could any longer. Not playing and not practicing will hinder anyoneís chances of winning.
AMcD
View Profile
Inner circle
stacking for food!
3112 Posts

Profile of AMcD
What country? What place? What game? What environment? What stake? Casino? Private? Club? Partners? Single-o? Plastic cards? Cut Card? Cash? Chips?

There are dozens of factors. Dozens of cases. I would get every penny you have in my environment, I wouldn't move a finger in a casino.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2368 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Oct 26, 2018, AMcD wrote:

What country? What place? What game? What environment? What stake? Casino? Private? Club? Partners? Single-o? Plastic cards? Cut Card? Cash? Chips?

There are dozens of factors. Dozens of cases...


Oh, c'mon AMcD. You're talking about the real world...this is the Gambling Spot.

I learned from the best experts on DVDs, on lecture webinars and in books. I have been practicing my Zarrow shuffle, Center and Bottom deals for the prescribed several years and they are undetectable and would get the money according to every "advertised" gambling expert (including make-believe hustlers and rounders) I have ever spoken with. Now are you suggesting that in a broader context, in order to use these moves in a real game, I have to take into consideration all these other factors and perhaps even more?

Are you crazy? My moves are undetectable...I have fooled some of the top WSOP players with my demo moves. Further, I have a certificate of completion from the Rounders School of Hustling that says I am officially a "Gambling Expert."

Are you trying to burst my bubble? Are you saying this is all different when hustling actual games? Smile

Quote:
I would get every penny you have in my environment, I wouldn't move a finger in a casino.


AMcD, you have got to stop being so forthright. Objectivity on the Gambling Spot? Be serious. I can't handle all this real-world stuff. Keep in mind, objective reality is not my strong suit.

(Oh, I think I'm going to have to take a nap after all this.) Smile

However...getting back to the specific question originally posed, (Lorraine or Madison?), Have you taken into consideration that Madison is an Erdnase Expert and has appeared on national TV. Come to think of it, Lorraine is a Memory Expert and also has appeared on national TV.

Now I'm really confused. Smile

P.S. Nice to see you posting again AMcD. Why don't you make a habit of it? Smile
Gamblingman007
View Profile
New user
43 Posts

Profile of Gamblingman007
Harry might can demonstrate a move but I actually doubt that he would have the heart to really do a move in a game, now demonstrating a move, yes. Iíve seen him in action so Iím not guessing what Iím talking about, I know what Iím talking about. I watched him many a times while I was studying with Gene Maze, Wesley James, Ken krenzel, Frank Garcia and the list goes on. Madison I never met.
RS1963
View Profile
Inner circle
2711 Posts

Profile of RS1963
Erdnase. Well if he were still alive I presume could
disgruntledpuffin
View Profile
Elite user
i have nothing to say about my
433 Posts

Profile of disgruntledpuffin
Any of the above guys could get the money in a casino game, if they knew how. Magicians, particularly at The Gambling Spot, greatly over estimate and romanticise the amount of skill and sleight of hand involved in real world cheating.
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Loyal user
213 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote:
....Any of the above guys could get the money in a casino game, if they knew how....


Genius level deduction.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
disgruntledpuffin
View Profile
Elite user
i have nothing to say about my
433 Posts

Profile of disgruntledpuffin
Badly worded, I feel. What I mean is, getting the money in a casino environment requires a small amount of knowledge, then having the balls to apply that knowledge. It's not a question of their sleight of hand skill, which I believe is what the OP was getting at.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2368 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote:
Badly worded, I feel. What I mean is, getting the money in a casino environment requires a small amount of knowledge, then having the balls to apply that knowledge. It's not a question of their sleight of hand skill, which I believe is what the OP was getting at.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2368 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote:

Any of the above guys could get the money in a casino game, if they knew how. Magicians, particularly at The Gambling Spot, greatly over estimate and romanticise the amount of skill and sleight of hand involved in real world cheating.


Well...do you know how to get the money in a casino environment? Have your ever done so?

Okay, you are probably correct on your statement but for the wrong reasons. Also consider the fact that most people have no desire to cheat a casino. It is dangerous and not an easy task.

Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote:

...What I mean is, getting the money in a casino environment requires a small amount of knowledge, then having the balls to apply that knowledge. It's not a question of their sleight of hand skill, which I believe is what the OP was getting at.


????? I think the hole you are digging yourself is getting deeper and deeper. Smile You almost have it. Successfully beating casinos over time does require knowledge and skill, sometimes considerable knowledge and skill. But it is different skill and knowledge. However, it is true that sleight of hand is little used at this level. However, sleight of hand is little used in casino poker games also. That doesn't mean that a great deal of knowledge and skill is not necessary. It in fact is...at least if one looks to be very successful over time.
disgruntledpuffin
View Profile
Elite user
i have nothing to say about my
433 Posts

Profile of disgruntledpuffin
[quote]On Nov 2, 2018, Cagliostro wrote:

Well...do you know how to get the money in a casino environment? Have your ever done so?[quote]

Yes. I work Surveillance at one of the busiest casinos in London. Investigating casino cheats is how I pay my bills. I see what gets the money.

No, I have never cheated myself. I threw in the odd move here and there to get a feel for the timing and heat when I was still a dealer. A peek for no reason, a brief without knowing the identity of the slug,zarrowing one grab of a multi pass dilution shuffle. Stupid? Yes. Scary? As hell.

Cheers
Bobbycash
View Profile
Special user
Australia
693 Posts

Profile of Bobbycash
So this brings up a somewhat interesting point, yes there are some absolute maniacs that will go for the money on the boldest way possible, but is that characteristic of the modern day cheater? I for one have no idea. When I started learning about gambling I was mainly interested in the sleight of hand techniques, but over the years have progressed to learning the maths behind the various games as well as learning the strategy behind them. Itís taken a long time, and Iím not there yet as to being sophisticated with the games I enjoy (poker and blackjack...trying to learn Gin and Craps but some of the resources for this are difficult in terms of strategy). But I am afforded the luxury of it being a somewhat academic exercise (I donít need/nor have the desire to put what Iíve learnt to the test), but I would be very interested to hear what people think the average/normal cheater is.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2368 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote:

...What I mean is, getting the money in a casino environment requires a small amount of knowledge, then having the balls to apply that knowledge. It's not a question of their sleight of hand skill...


Well it could be a question of sleight of hand skill, but usually not. Sleight of hand is not that applicable in the casino environment. Could be at times though.

Cheats with a small amount of knowledge and big balls are called Yahoos or Desperados in my neck of the woods. They are always getting caught or bringing down a lot of heat on themselves.

Since you work in surveillance, is it possible that the cheats you spot, more or less the obvious ones, are the only ones you spot. Do you think maybe, just maybe, some of the better or more sophisticated cheats, the ones with greater skill and knowledge are getting by you and perhaps going over your head at times.

Just a thought of course and possibly something to consider. Smile
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Loyal user
213 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
Quote:
On Nov 3, 2018, Cagliostro wrote:
Since you work in surveillance, is it possible that the cheats you spot, more or less the obvious ones, are the only ones you spot. Do you think maybe, just maybe, some of the better or more sophisticated cheats, the ones with greater skill and knowledge are getting by you and perhaps going over your head at times.

Before you (disgruntledpuffin) answer the question that Cag posited to you in his post ... remember that hubris is the bane of both hustlers, and those who believe they could never be hustled!

Pro-Tip ... The correct answer to Cag's question is "yes".
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
disgruntledpuffin
View Profile
Elite user
i have nothing to say about my
433 Posts

Profile of disgruntledpuffin
Mr Bones, although you said it in an unnecessarily condescending way, you are quite correct. Obviously my answer is yes. There are always cheats getting by surveillance in one way or another and I'm not arrogant enough to think we catch them all.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what we're debating here. The OP asked which of the three people would get the money in the real world. My answer? Any of them could. Most real world cheating in casinos is as rank as it gets. I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with my position on this.
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2368 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Nov 3, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote:

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what we're debating here. The OP asked which of the three people would get the money in the real world. My answer? Any of them could.


I agree. No question that Dan Madison, Harry Lorraine, DOC and Erdnase could get the money in the real world. Just look at all the moves they have demonstrated in books and on videos.

Quote:
Most real world cheating in casinos is as rank as it gets. I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with my position on this.


I agree again. Obviously the really serious and subtle big money cheating occurs in home games, not in casinos.
disgruntledpuffin
View Profile
Elite user
i have nothing to say about my
433 Posts

Profile of disgruntledpuffin
Quote:
On Nov 3, 2018, Cagliostro wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 3, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote:

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what we're debating here. The OP asked which of the three people would get the money in the real world. My answer? Any of them could.


I agree. No question that Dan Madison, Harry Lorraine, DOC and Erdnase could get the money in the real world. Just look at all the moves they have demonstrated in books and on videos.

Quote:
Most real world cheating in casinos is as rank as it gets. I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with my position on this.


I agree again. Obviously the really serious and subtle big money cheating occurs in home games, not in casinos.


I can't work out if you're trolling me for your own amusement or if you actually think I believe that Harry Lorayne et al could walk into a casino do "moves", however that might be applied and walk out with money.

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that MOST (go back and check, I actually used that word)casino cheating requires no skill whatsoever, just the requisite knowledge. I could explain a red/black or colour up scam to Harry Lorayne and we'd have a good chance of being able to pull it off that same day.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ Who would get the money in a real game? (3 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.23 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL