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Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
So what do you ya'll do about wrinkles from production silks?
Many believe not to iron silks but no matter how many times I crimple them up, they do not appear to be faceted. No they just look WRINKLED or creased depending on the fold |
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David Todd Inner circle 2328 Posts |
Iron on low heat if there are heavy folds from storage at the magic shop or from when they were mailed to you flat , then wrap the silks around a cardboard tube. (such as a mailing tube or the tube inside a roll of wrapping paper) . I wrap mine around cardboard tubes from wrapping paper , then store the rolled up silks inside a wider mailing tube with sealed ends to keep the dust out . This is also how they travel in my case . The outer tube protects from dust or other damage while storing or transporting .
This works for me . Hopefully some of the silk experts here such as Richard Hughes will notice this thread and give us more insight into keeping silk handkerchiefs looking neat and tidy . |
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
Dai,
That is all fine and good for storage. I am not talking about those type of wrinkles but the kind I seem to get from a silk fold making the production look less than professional. They start out clean but in a fold get the wrinkles. Does anyone know if the pros roll/fold their silks just before the show rather than say an hour or two before? |
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Ron Reid Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 2732 Posts |
Hi Powermagic:
Silks that are packed into small places like dye tubes and palmos can't help but get wrinkled. I think you hit on it though - roll or pack your silks as close to performance time as possible. I used to use a lot of silks in my act, and would load my dye tubes last. It does help. Concerning larger silks that aren't packed tightly, Jeff McBride offers excellent advice on his "Stage Magic" video. He says Lance Burton told him not to iron his silks, but to let them get a uniform wrinkle all over. He showed some silks that had not been ironed in a long time, and they looked really good. I hope this helps you. Ron |
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Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
Ron see what I said above.
I just do not buy it. I have tried it and seen on another video to crumble and release the silk until facets appear to look uniform I have tried and tried and never got it to look like anything BUT WRINKLED! Maybe this is only a STAGE trick. Actually one of Jeff's Mentors, Jack Adams, once screamed at me for ironing his Peter White silk fountain. "Never do you iron it" And there was some bigger wrinkles because of it. ANd they stood out/ This fold does not create as much of a problem as say a silk fan fold for a flag or silk roll for a production. Tannens and a few others tried making ULTRA silk which was not supposed to wrinkle. Basically it was either too think or just pieces of nylon that wrinkled less but was too hard to fold since it kept bouncing out of the fold as you tried to do it. The real sacrifice was it did not behave like silk nor really look like it. Maybe they do not even sell it any more. |
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ChrisG Elite user Batavia, Ohio 448 Posts |
I remember Duane Laflin saying in a late night session at the FCM convention that silk is a hollow tube and when you iron it you crush the tube. Then when you fold them the creases show more. I have some that have not been ironed in a couple years.
I have cloth slightly larger than the silks with a pocket sewn in. I place a large 1" dowel rod in the pocket and roll up the silks. Easy to store and carry in my case. I hang my larger silks on a long rod at home and between shows. They seem to travel well with little creasing from folds. I believe Duane also said that he sets up no more than one hour prior to performing. ChrisG
"Consensus is the negation of Leadership"
M. Thatcher |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Actually, I never iron my silk fountain or hardly any silks. The wrinkles do make the silk fountain look better. I also fold my silk fountain ahead of the show if possible about three days. That way the silk is more tired and opens more slowly.
I do iron small dye tube silks when I have to. But usually packing them flat in a ziplock bag does the trick for me. One of the tricks to folding silks for storage is not to make too many folds. For instance an 18" silk is only quartered so there are less folds to worry about. On flag staffs , I iron the pleating into the ribbon reinforcement. It makes it easier to fold up. Flag tiers and Fan of Silks are simply wrapped loosely around the outside. I have never had to clean any of my silks. If you take care of them, you shouldn't have to clean them. Usually, they will wear out before you need to clean them.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Dealers will love my answer to this. I see silks like flash powder, paper streamers, and production candy. It is a supply or accessory item that will ultimately be consumed in the production of magic. They are replaceable, and should be.
Therefore, go ahead and iron them. I do recommend washing silks in Woolite or even baby shampoo before their first ironing to remove the sizing from the fabric. Sizing can cause problems in ironing and is not near as forgiving as silk is for being over heated. My better printed silks, I do not crease but I do iron and fold. Solid colored silks get creased. The 18" silks out number the others by maybe 20-25 to one. They are folded into quarters. Other sizes are folded to whatever will go into the bag. Then all of the same color silks of the same size are kept together in a Zip-Loc bag. The bags of a given size (12", 18", 24" and 36") are all kept together in a Rubber Maid sweater box. It keeps my life simple. When you need silks talk to the dealer and buy at least a dozen of a size. You will usually get a good deal. Enjoy! Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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Paul G New user 76 Posts |
I've never ironed my silks. I don't mind the wrinkled look. HOWEVER, I recently read General Grant's Smoother than Silk notes, in which he wrote that ironing silks is one of the most important factors in any of his silk routines. If I remember correctly, he wrote that an ironed silk will have more bounce, spring and life. He couldn't have recommended more strongly the importance of using ironed silks. Given the posts above, there seems to be significant disagreement on this from the experts (Burton vs Grant).
Paul |
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fccfp Special user NJ 563 Posts |
Although I am hardly an expert, certainly no where in the same ballpark as Gen Grant (whom I had the pleasure of meeting yesterday at Bob Little's Super Fun Day.)
In Gen Grant's lecture he emphasized the importance of ironing your silks. He even had a very beutiful effect that was set up while you were doing the ironing. I have been doing some version or other of square/circle for a very long time. When I was just starting out I did not take any care when handleing my silks. I just wound them up like a ball of twine and dropped them into the SQ. I did this while packing up after a show. They would sit there, wadded up till the next perf. I had the good fortune to see a video of myself doing a child birthday party. When those silks came out I was mortified. I never saw them from the audiance perspective. They rally looked ratty. That night I took out the ball, unwraped the silks and took inventory. 3 piles: Good, Salvagable for certain applications, and trash now. I have ironed my silks since then. I do, however keep them folded in my case betwwen shows. Nothing is resting on them so they are not being crushed. I am re-thining my whole approach to silks as I write this. MY 2 Cents: For most applications Clean, Crisp, silks are or should be required. For other applications, a "rumpled" silk might be better. While we are on the subject: wouldn't using a silk w----r or a P--mo ball defeat the whole purpose? If you made it this far, thank you for your patience with my long windedness. If you are still reading this, you are spending too much time on the computer.
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
I agree that ironed silks look better and work better. Years ago I owned a booking agency that sold entertainment to shopping malls (542 of them). I have actually heard a talent buyer inquire, "You are not sending the guy with the wrinkled scarves again, are you?"
Whether the audience knows or not, talent buyers do! They rarely learn a magician's name. But they do describe them. First impressions can make or break a magician's future. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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Michael Taggert Special user Fredericksburg Virginia 656 Posts |
I have to agree with the application vs care thoughts. I have several silks that are use in specific routines that are perpetually wrinkled. While others are carefully pressed flat and folded. As for storage I leaned a long time ago that the cardboard tube is not enough for me to manage the silks so I use a trouser coat hanger the kind with the wooden bar that can lock in place. the silks stay there until ready to be prepared for the show. I keep this in the costume bag next to the tux. I learned this method from Becky Pitcock up in Hagerstown, MD. She had dozens of silks she tended when I saw her last. They all looked fabulous.
I also agree that if the silk is showing any signs of ware out it goes. |
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Michael Berends Loyal user Canada 220 Posts |
Hi All,
New to the Café.. Here's a trick that was taught to me a long time ago. I wet all my silks before my shows and put them on the bathroom mirror in the dressing room or hotel room. You basically take the wet silk and spread it out on the mirror so it lies flat. Because it is wet it will stick to the mirror, which allows you to smooth it out so it lies perfectly flat. In this state your silk will dry in about half an hour. When the silk falls off the mirror it is dry, flat, and CLEAN! ( No wrinkles). I know this sounds strange, but it does work. I take a number of silks and do this before most of my shows. It's easy and fast. If you have doubts? Try it with one of your silks. you'll see what I mean. Cheers, Mike
www.michaelberends.com
"IMPOSSIBLE HAS JUST BECOME AN OPINION" |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
The wet silk trick was taught to me by Abb Dickson. I later found it written up in a booklet by the Magical Ovette (also from Canada).
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
I learned the wet silk "ironing job" from my mother! (That was well over 50 years ago.)
She also taught me a rising card trick before I could ride a bike. Mom is the only one of my parents who ever came to a show (rodeo, magic or music concert) or listened for my music on the radio. Even 59 year-old kids with wrinkles of their own remember that! You can always fake you care but you can't fake being there. Remember to watch someone else perform! You might forget the show, but they may never forget you were there. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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Michael Taggert Special user Fredericksburg Virginia 656 Posts |
I happened to stumble on a little gem when I recently unpacked, a silk I just got from silk King Studios (Rice's Daughter). It was an addendum to Rice's Volume 1 on the care of silks. I suggest every only get a copy of this from Rice and read it carefully. Basically it says "yes to ironing" if they are pure high quality silk and "no to washing" with "Yes to dry cleaning". Iron on HIGH not just silk settings and air out the silk .
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Michael,
You are right. Hanging or "airing out" silk does help. It can be as simple as putting them flat on the bed, floor or a table. Remember that good wool suit sleeves are lined with silk. Good silk will press just fine on the Wool setting! Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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Powermagic Inner circle 1437 Posts |
I have just tried again, after a few years since I first posted this, to try to see if one could put in enough facets to appear more like a pattern than a wrinkle. The key would be to get the wrinkles to look like patterns. On stage I can see how the light might dance off of them but really to be perfect one would have to get the wrinkles really small and uniform as possible.
Since the first post I bought a steamer. both a steamer and the wet method will give the silk a less than pressed look if you crumple when wet and then smooth on the mirror. Maybe we do not want that perfect press since any folds will stand out otherwise/ When referring to production silks, I am still trying to hide the fact that these are folded. In the small stage or home world, say you accordion fold and then roll a 24" PRESSED silk. You assume you have to do this a hour before the show for various reasons. So when it opens it opens fast but the creases remain that I feel can telegraph to the audience that this silk was just folded up. Well you can not blame them. they can see the uniform folds. So for thumb tips, one handed silk productions, zebra silk and other such effects that require the silk to be rolled or folded small, hiding the folds seems to be more important. The theory of uniform facets makes sense if it works. If the silk is not perfect to start with, well then folds required for the production, should be less noticeable. As some might say they never notice, refer a few posts back to the guy who saw what is wrinkled silks looked like on camera. Well I feel a pressed and creased silk also is not ideal if we are trying to make the silk like like it transformed or appeared. We do not want them to see how it was folded by the size of the creases. I have been working a few silks for an hour and while it still appears wrinkled, if a hard light is thrown on it from the front it does shimmer a little but still to me, looks wrinkled. I still need to try to get the facets even smaller it would seem for that to work. In a recent test for zebra silk, I have put facets in both silks as well as the production silk. I feel you can not start with two pressed and come out with one faceted silk. They have to be uniform so they do not notice the larger silk as different. Since the end result is a striped silk, after 20 minutes having the stripes and the facets did seem to hide the folds. The question would be if the silk itself looked acceptable not being crisp. I will say that the further back you are the better it looks and harder to tell if it is wrinkled. So I am still missing something. When I see some productions on tape. I do not see the folds. I am not sure what they are doing different. |
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
I wet the silk when there are hard wrinkles to deal with. This usually happens when a silk is compressed into a tight place for over half an hour. The hard wrinkles are the really unsightly ones - actually looks worse on an ironed silk that was compressed into a load chamber. I think hard wrinkles don't show as badly on a silk that has never been ironed. If I can't wait for the silk to air dry, I use a blow dryer or a bathroom hand dryer.
When I want a more uniform look to a somewhat wrinkled silk, I roll it into a ball between my hands, release it and repeat the process until the silk looks nice. |
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