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Mr. Woolery
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*Sigh* I really should just walk away. But here I am again.

I want to address why I was asking about your qualifications. First, your reply:

" I doubt very much if anyone knows as much about this subject as I do purely from the research I have done over many years. It is true that I am not a particularly good reader but I suspect I can do it as well as anyone else on this thread. However, I know what I am doing where books are concerned. I have done a few readings for people I have met but never done anything where I have been paid. But the book is not written by me anyway so my qualifications are not important. "

You can do all the research in the world on any skill and you won't be an expert. I have other hobbies. One of them is blacksmithing. I have met people who claim to be blacksmiths, are able to talk about information that is in books I've never been able to afford, claim to have reference libraries that make me drool, but these folks don't have credibility as a blacksmith because they almost never swing a hammer. The real knowledge of smithing isn't from watching videos on YouTube or reading obscure books, or memorizing temperature charts. The real knowledge comes from doing it. I get into occasional conversations where someone tells me I'm using the wrong steel for making a particular tool. My response is always to say that I will put mine next to his any day he likes and we can test them in an apples-to-apples test of his choosing. I don't promise that mine will always be the best, but I do promise I won't be ashamed of how my tools perform. None of these armchair blacksmiths has ever taken me up on it. And the working smiths don't do that. They ask questions about why I choose a particular steel, but don't tell me it isn't the right one. They want to compare so both of us get better. Sadly, there are a lot fewer of the working smiths than the guys with a lot of reference material who think they can tell me how to do it even though they never have.

Kenneth, you may have an impressive library (though you haven't really told us what books you own to give perspective as to whether you would know that the material you have collected for your new book is actually going to be new to us), but you don't really know how to do a reading until you've done enough to make the mistakes that you fret later on. I'm not by any means the most experienced reader here. Nowhere near. But I have done readings for real people for real money. And the paid ones are a whole different deal than the ones that I gave for free when learning how. Please don't tell me I could make $200 for a reading with your future book if you yourself have not made $200 for a reading with the same material. Since we don't know who your contributors are, we can only gauge how much use we would get from the book based on how much use YOU can make of the same information. So far, it sounds like you don't actually use it much.

The reason YOUR experience matters is because that's the only way we can know that you can accurately evaluate the quality of the material you are offering to sell us. If someone came on a card forum and said he was going to sell us the best book on card tricks ever written by the best card magicians ever to hide their names, we'd want to know how the compiler/editor knew these were really the best card tricks, right? That's fair, right? And if he "knew" these were the best because he had read a lot of books on card magic, though he admitted he had only performed a few times for people and never for pay, and really wasn't all that experienced, but it didn't matter because the important thing was that he got these tricks from some really amazing magicians, we might want to ask a few more probing questions before paying for his very expensive book, right? Of course, if Michael Ammar said he'd seen this guy perform material from these secret magicians and it truly was groundbreaking stuff that would allow people to book gigs for 5 times the money they'd ever gotten for a performance previously, we'd line up to empty our wallets for the book. Because Ammar has established credibility and we would believe he knows what he's talking about. Make sense? See where I'm going with this? Since we don't know you, I suggested you show the skills you've learned from these mystery men to someone who has the cred to tell us whether or not the material is likely to be worth it.

You are absolutely right that many of the books on cold reading seem to be written by people who don't know much about it and are regurgitating what they've found on the internet instead of what they have actually tried and done. No argument. Doesn't it make sense in such a situation that in a forum full of people who are sick and tired of seeing the same lousy information almost every time someone claims to have a new cold reading book, we'd want to have some evidence that yours really is as different as you claim? This is actually several people taking you seriously and giving you a chance to convince us that you are not like all the other folks who put out the same junk we have been burned on several times. Our skepticism is because we've seen similar claims before and so far seen precious few examples of those claims being true.

Which is disappointing, as I think we are all happy when we find another source of solid information.

-Patrick
IAIN
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As far as I can tell, the new guy is probably mark Lewis and has written a new book... Wish he'd just say its him and be done with it... It'll be an interesting book..
DEVIL MAY CARE IS BACK!
http://tinyurl.com/y6n42gs2
Figg
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2018, Figg wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2018, Mr. Woolery wrote:
Well, my name actually is Patrick Woolery. I have never tried to make a secret of it. I tried to get the user name Patrick, but that was already taken when I became a member here. I called myself Mr. Woolery and sign all of my messages with my real first name because I prefer to be called by my actual name. I have no idea why this seems like a fake name to you. I confess I find it a little rude and judgy of you to assume and imply as you did. There are plenty of people here who don't share their real names and most of us are cool with that, but these are usually people who can tell us about their experience and qualifications and back it up.

I don't think anyone was trying to gang up or push you around, Kenneth. We are asking exactly the questions you invited when you asked what it would take to get us to trust you with our money for a book that you believe will be the best reference on cold reading ever. You indicated that you know how big the claims seem in your first post, so I meant to be helpful in telling you the exact sorts of hard questions I would have to have answers for before I spent a dime. Then I wrote a second post to give you a further suggestion about doing example readings. Other people expressed similar thoughts. That's confirmation or consensus, not pushing you around.

-Patrick (yes, my real name)


OK Patrick. I apologise for being so testy. I have had an exhausting and difficult day. Let us start afresh.


I suspect Mr Woolery did not see this post before he posted his latest observations. If he did then why stir things up again? In any event all he or anyone else her has to do is to read excerpts from the book to judge the content. However, these excerpts will not be forthcoming until things quieten down. You say you want evidence? THEN READ THE EXCERPTS!
Smoking Camel
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When can we read an excerpt?
I no longer smoke camel cigarettes.
Figg
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On Nov 5, 2018, Smoking Camel wrote:
When can we read an excerpt?


As soon as everyone shuts up.
Senor Fabuloso
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Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Figg wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Smoking Camel wrote:
When can we read an excerpt?


As soon as everyone shuts up.


LOL, you really know how to make friends and influence people. Again your style is really off putting there figgy. I'm not at all interested in your "EXCERPTS" and wouldn't buy your book at any price. Good luck with it though, I'm sure the fraternity here, is going to love it.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
John C
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Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Figg wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Smoking Camel wrote:
When can we read an excerpt?


As soon as everyone shuts up.



OHHHH!
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
John C
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See you in the funny papers....in two years.

PS: What's the point of debating this cat. Let's do it in 2020
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Figg
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Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Figg wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Smoking Camel wrote:
When can we read an excerpt?


As soon as everyone shuts up.


LOL, you really know how to make friends and influence people. Again your style is really off putting there figgy. I'm not at all interested in your "EXCERPTS" and wouldn't buy your book at any price. Good luck with it though, I'm sure the fraternity here, is going to love it.


I have already decided not to sell it to you under any circumstances. I do not deem you to be worthy of it. I have viewed your annoying and discourteous posts in the past. As for "making friends and influencing people" I would remind you that YOU were the very first one to show rudeness on this thread. And your continued rudeness is depriving other members here of viewing the excerpts. I am having enough trouble finding excerpts that reveal too much information to the public without having to deal with obnoxious posters. I have enough trouble dealing with idiots in my day job without having to come here and deal with idiots here too.
Figg
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Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, John C wrote:
See you in the funny papers....in two years.

PS: What's the point of debating this cat. Let's do it in 2020


I think I agree with you. I am on the verge of abandoning this discussion. I have far more important things to do than deal with idiots. The only person here who has shown any respect is smoking camel and I thank him for it. I may send him a private message with an excerpt as a thank you for his courtesy. You have all been offered free excerpts to improve your work and you have discouraged me from sharing them.No skin off my nose. Your loss-not mine.
Figg
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I have made a decision. I shall post two excerpts from different contributors then leave the magic Café for a few months.That should give you all time to digest what you have seen. I haven't the time nor the inclination to deal with idiots. This will be my second last post on here. I shall make one more post to give you a further excerpt then I will leave you all in peace for a few months. I just don't have the patience to deal with all the silliness.

Here is the first excerpt by a very experienced reader:

..................................................................................................................................................................

"There is indeed money in the psychic business. You have to have an elastic conscience but a conscience nevertheless. Actually that is not true since many psychics have no conscience whatsoever. However I do and I believe it is the best way to go in the long run.

I think the best place to start is with Richard Webster's book "How to build up a psychic practice with full length cold readings". This describes the business side of things as well as how you become a psychic. I think it is a good starting point and reading it will help you decide whether this work is something that you would want to do.

It will only be the first step but an important one.

My "primary purpose" is not to "help people". My primary purpose is to make money and I can assure you there is a LOT of money in the psychic business.

Horoscopes
Computerised Horoscopes
Mail Order Readings
Psychic House Parties
Private Readings
Psychic Fairs
Email readings.

Being a psychic is not an ethical business; it’s a bent game. The only way to justify it is to do the person some good. Even then it’s not completely justified, but it’s better than nothing.

However this does not exempt me from my duty as a caring human being to be as compassionate and helpful as I can. The funny thing is that a streetwise scam artist like myself can be of infinitely more help to clients than those sincere but deluded shut eyes. I thank God every day that I am not hampered by belief. If I were I might do people a lot of harm.

But yet I believe! Figure that out. I haven't yet.

There is a spiritual dimension to what I do but I can't hope to explain it right now. Let me simply say that you cannot expect the same outlook from me as you would from a nice sincere old lady who wishes nothing but to help people.

I am someone who has lived on the fringes of wickedness for many years. I have associated with all sorts of people in my life from criminals to intellectuals. I am not a naive lost soul. You simply cannot expect a cynical street hardened hustler to have the same outlook on these matters as other people.

It is not my purpose to do good. It is my purpose to make money. However doing good comes with the territory; and I have done a lot of good.
Figg
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And here is another something from another contributor. He is a really good magician who has done a lot of street magic in his time. And after you read this that will be enough from me for the moment.
..........................................................................................................................................................................

Chinese numerology is a Great way to start doing readings and hone your cold reading skills. For someone who doesn't want to get into deep psychic readings and just wants a fun quick character analysis this fits the bill admirably. It is one of the most useful things in my arsenal.

I started doing this about five years ago off and on and it is always a hit, always. Also people who are tired of palms and tarot like it the most. For huge groups it is fantastic because you can do a full reading in two minutes no problem, one minute once you get good at it. You have cards printed with the square and the meanings on the card and you do not even have to remember what the numbers mean! You also give this card to the customer and they have something they will keep that has your phone number. I did a trade show a few years back and I am still getting calls from people I did at that gig for readings over the phone (This is a great reason to take credit cards!).

Also Doc Hilford's System 88 is fantastic as well for similar reasons, quick readings, easy to do, the information is printed on a card that they keep with your contact information.

If you want to get REALLY good at this do it on the street. Get a little sign, a tip jar, a lap table, a chair for the customer to sit in, and a shady place to sit. Dress in a Suit and LOOK SHARP! Put only fives and 10s in your tip jar to salt it and you will be busy all day as long as you are personable. I have gotten up to $20 a reading and never less than a five, LOTS of 10s. If you are any good at this at all knocking out $100 an hour for a couple of hours on a Saturday afternoon is no problem. You will also go home with a nice day's pay and learn your craft. There is nothing like GOOD stage time.
I don't know if you will get rich doing this but I know if you know how to do it you will never starve.
Senor Fabuloso
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Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Figg wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:

LOL, you really know how to make friends and influence people. Again your style is really off putting there figgy. I'm not at all interested in your "EXCERPTS" and wouldn't buy your book at any price. Good luck with it though, I'm sure the fraternity here, is going to love it.


I have already decided not to sell it to you under any circumstances. I do not deem you to be worthy of it.


Good decision, since I don't want it. LOL (you gotta love, such arrogance) My first post made a perdition. Did you even understand, it's context? Based on your post, I don't think so? Which gives me great pause, in your comprehension skills. I think the readers will come to see that your interpretation of the material, you say you have compiled, will be misunderstood and inappropriately, synthesized.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
aligator
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Sounds a little bit like the self confessionary "Psychic Blues" withpout the humour.
Woodfield
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Thanks for the excerpts. I've made my decision.
Smoking Camel
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Hmmmm.... Mr Figg - these excerpts don't sound like they come from psychics at the top of their game.

I'll stick to Dusty White - he knows his stuff.
I no longer smoke camel cigarettes.
clairvoyant
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Eh.
aligator
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LOL.....what people will do to try and separate us from our money.
Mr. Woolery
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Figg, yes, I was typing while you posted your apology for your testiness. Doesn't mean my thoughts don't still stand, but I would have phrased things slightly differently if I had read your very brief suggestion to start afresh before I started typing. And there's really no reason to be testy with this forum. People have been cutting you a lot of slack, really. If you feel attacked when I ask 5 (not 20) questions that I think anyone would want answered before parting with a substantial sum for a book, perhaps you don't have a thick enough skin to produce a book in this market. That's not an insult, but a helpful suggestion to consider that there's a difference between what you think of us and what we intend.

Iain, I don't think Mr. Figg is Mark Lewis. But I suspect the first excerpt may be by Mark Lewis. The "elastic conscience" and talk about how much money is to be made in the psychic business sounds just like him. I'm only uncertain because Lewis always seems to want credit for everything he says or types, so I don't see him being anonymous in a book produced by someone else.

The second excerpt is not from a famous psychic, but a magician who started doing this 5 years ago? There are folks in this conversation who have been doing it for decades. I don't think there's much for us to learn from that particular contributor, really. Not that the advice is bad, but it isn't new.

Both extracts suggest getting products from people other than themselves as the starting point. Webster and Hilford. Of course. Which indicates that both are from the magician/mentalist side of things, not from the psychic side of things.

Still, there's nothing new or compelling about either of these little tidbits. I can't imagine that I'd want to pay a hefty price for a book that tells me to set my ethics aside to make money or to practice readings on the street with a goal of getting $10 for a one minute numerology reading. (Actually, I'd like to either hear a recording or read a transcript of one of these readings because I don't think you can even hit the bullet points in less than 4 minutes, not if you include the arrows and even a cursory description of what each trait means. My experience is that people tip based on perceived value and part of that value is the time spent with the reader. And telling you to create your own tic sheet with the meanings is free advice you can get anywhere.)

My sincere advice, Mr. Figg, is to get out there and actually try to make use of all of this dynamite material before you decide to market it in a new book. This is honestly friendly advice and you will benefit from it greatly if you follow it. Try out every single one of these collected secrets before you spend a single dime on printing up a bunch of copies to sell. You will save the printing costs of the book, you will avoid the embarrassment of negative reviews, and you will get a perspective on the material you have collected from famous psychics and anonymous street magicians that will help you be a truly discerning purchaser of future cold reading materials.

-Patrick
Mr. Woolery
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And on a personal note, I am intensely curious what about my name comes across as fake. I have had one other person in the past assume it was a pseudonym and ask me if I got it from Winnie the Pooh. Since I grew up with this name, it seems quite normal to me. Can anyone at all tell me why it seems suspect to people reading it?

-Patrick
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