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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ Bigger Fish Files (73 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kissdadookie
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Quote:
On Mar 10, 2019, Consultthemind1 wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 9, 2019, Mark Timon wrote:
But for the expensive price you paid for it, is there something that you would consider New or an impressive piece of mentalism , never revealed before, that any one would consider adding to his show?

Regards


For something of this size, the product price is not high - If you were to compare it to an average priced dvd (30 - 50 gbp) containing 5 effects (again Iím averaging. Some DVDs are 20+Gbp for one effect) this set contains a way to create your own effects, create your own stage show (full breakdown), create your own character and then an amount of effects that I couldnít even wager a guess at. On top of that thereís effects shared by Michael Murray. This is limited, so that also has to be taken into account. In terms of price of the project, size of the project and the quality of the material this is very, very good value. To answer your question (which is a difficult question to answer) as everyoneís answer will be different, I have added Jedi mind choke, Silence, Try (I think itís called), match up by Humphreyís / carver (with Polaroid photos - Instead of symbols), I have used one of the card things (I canít remember the name) but itís quick easy and the opening force on the set (again I canít remember the name). If anything on the set I was overwhelmed with what to choose from and Iím still to test other effects on the project before making decisions. It took me over a month to get through the material (the first pass) and that was not note taking. If you are looking at this set for the material alone then, you are really not purchasing the set for itís true value, itís all the tips littered throughout, the subtleties and experiences that are shared in the jam sessions (when the artists are talking to each other) and how everything is so strategically thought out that makes this a valuable set. Are there effects on the set I wonít use? Of course, not because they are not practical though (and I never thought Iíd ever say this about Turner) all the effects are accessible, not too bold, not steeped in layers of dual reality, not long winded and not process driven but because they donít suit my character. I (in the past) thought Turner didnít really think through some of the things he was sharing and doing and watching the breakdown of the episode/ how to create a stage show really allows Turner to shine and some of the things I didnít appreciate I understand now and I think this project allows him to be him and it cuts through like a knife and shows a side of him Iíve certainly never seen.

Whilst on the subject, I was talking to a friend who hates Turner (many a times we had in the past sat and talked at length about how much fluff Turner talks/ produces and how the only admirable thing heíd ever done was being able to capture peoples attention and thatís before getting started on the s*it shower of prop-less mentalism he inspired and influenced) and asked my friend to sit and watch the tv episode with me - normally we would sit watching (anything really) pointing out what we liked/ didnít like and after the first couple of performances he said ďHeís become an incredible performerĒ and by the time the middle break had come around he had placed an order through Mind Fx. I donít hide the fact I hate Turnerís appearance, tattoos on the neck, hands and face are off putting for me, that coupled with his earlier releases was enough to keep me away for a long while and now admittedly Iím going back over what I did purchase a long while ago looking at it in a new light and even some (not all of it) is cleverly thought out. Just as a quick FYI me and my friend came to conclusion that it was Turnerís age and the want to impress that held him back - Heís grown up now and it seems he has stopped being that annoying kid that is running around saying ďlook at me, look at meĒ and now is just riding in his own lane. Sorry for going on and on, once Iíd started I couldnít stop.

David.


Speaking of going back to his older material after watching his video releases because one can better grasp at what is being taught in his written releases. This is basically the sense one gets if one had read his PDF Mentalism Master Class series and then watched Devil in Disguise 2 and Escalators. What appears questionable in print is a whole different beast when you see it actually being performed and the reason for that is much of the technique and method is actually heavily entwined with the presentation (so patter, timing of patter, patter cadence, etc. are often part and parcel with the method, this is very much like when one first learns the material in Psychological Subtleties or Building Blocks and then later down the line sees the performances of the material, what initially appeared to be impossible fluff on the page because you may have attempted to work it all of a sudden you have a new understanding of because you start noticing little details that you missed or do not/forgot to incorporate into your own performances of the material which led to high failure rates).

A simpler comparison to get to the point is Isabella's Star 3. He had included performance videos for IS3 and it helps a whole lot when trying to learn and work on IS3.
swood
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Completely agree - the videos for IS3 perfectly complement the book.
Arthur T
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For me the video completely rescued the book/effect.(is3) after reading It I thought this is way to obvious and convoluted. The video performance then completely changed my mind. This seems to be a running trend for me and Peters products. I often read the book and think this ainít great, then as soon as I see a performance I think Ďboy heís turned this into a miracleí. Iíve never really had this so much with other performers but it has taught me one thing. Wait until itís realsed in video format.
kissdadookie
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On Mar 13, 2019, Arthur T wrote:
For me the video completely rescued the book/effect.(is3) after reading It I thought this is way to obvious and convoluted. The video performance then completely changed my mind. This seems to be a running trend for me and Peters products. I often read the book and think this ainít great, then as soon as I see a performance I think Ďboy heís turned this into a miracleí. Iíve never really had this so much with other performers but it has taught me one thing. Wait until itís realsed in video format.


That's because most other material have physically tangible methods whilst Peter has a lot of the method built into the scripting and performance. Practicing this kind of material also requires the performer to be confident in the material (kind of, sort of like performing hypnosis in many a ways). Like Jermay absolutely received the same criticisms when he released his first few books and it wasn't until perhaps when Skullduggery was released which was a video release recorded from a lecture he did when people actually grasped that what was in a book like Building Blocks was actually practical and usable.

Same can be said about Derren Brown and his Devil's Picturebook. Those psychological forces he used, if they were released in text format, people would have the same criticisms against Derren. It wasn't until he had TV specials where he is using much of the techniques he had developed which started off as seeds from his magician days when people became more open to the idea of propless mentalism. Same can be said about Psychological Subtleties but that was welcomed by the community from the get go because unlike Jermay and Turner, Banachek was already a trusted quantity.

If one has been in this hobby/market long enough, regardless if you're a working performer, hobbyist, or even avid collector just because you're curious, if you had studied the earlier works like Banachek's Psychological Subtleties, Jermay's 7 Deception, Building Blocks, and Coral Fang, Max Maven's work (much of it contained in his color series aka Prism), etc. then reading the works of Turner, Murray, and even Fraser would not give one the impression that these are pipe dreams or completely transparent and obvious in method. Why? Because you would have already established a fundamental understanding of concepts and techniques from the earlier works like the ones I've mentioned and saw how very obviously the new generation's works are actually heavily influenced and many a times based off of the earlier works of those whom came before them. Now if you just jump head first into something like let's say Turner's earlier books like Bigger Fish 1 and 2 without having had that foundational knowledge from reading something like Psychological Subtleties and/or Building Blocks, yeah, your initial reaction may be to scoff at the material and assume it's a pipe dream because likely the paradigm you've been working in has been in more classic mechanical approaches to mentalism or perhaps more in line with what can be considered mental magic rather than full on mentalism (I say this because I see a LOT of complaints when people look at products which contain a fair amount of DR or instant stooging even though much of mentalism does incorporate those concepts and does it incredibly well, that was one of the criticism when the color series was republished as the Prism book, with newcomers not understanding that those techniques are actually foundational techniques in mentalism).
Arthur T
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I certainly agree with you to a point, of course knowing the fundamentals is important to understand newer material. With out trying to blow ones own trumpet I would consider my self fairly knowledgeable, I've been studying mentalism for roughly 10 years (whenever DB's first series was released) and in spite of that I find Petes work hard to follow in written format. This is not a criticism of the material or the writing but a question of context. Petes work is full of subtleties, these are so hard to communicate in a book. Its not really what you say half the time, its how you say it, when you say it, your body language and and a whole lot more. Im in the process of writting a book myself and I use a lot of equivoque. This is so so difficult to communicate properly in writing. One sentence in real life performance could take 5 pages of writing just to detail everything properly (Its a massive ball ache). My previous post was not a criticism as I like an use a lot of Peters material. It was more of an appreciation of the fact that he is now releasing more video footage/projects, as for me it helps a hell of a lot despite having read and studied all the books you have mentioned. I appreciate this whole topic is a bit of a digression, but the more DID2 and Escalators in the world the happier Ill be. I'm sure this product is fab too, I've just spent way too much money on Peters products in the last 12 months to get this (Not a complaint, just a fact!)
252life
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Lol ball ache is now officially a part of my vocabulary.
Thank you
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
Arthur T
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Use it wisely
252life
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Magicians helping magicians Smile
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
Consultthemind1
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I enjoyed the videos immensely, itís nice to see something I might have dismissed because of not being able to fully appreciate it in written form. Seeing how comfortable Turner is as a performer is also valuable as you can tell he actually practices and performs what he writes about.

David.
TheDBK
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Quote:
On Mar 13, 2019, Arthur T wrote:
For me the video completely rescued the book/effect.(is3) after reading It I thought this is way to obvious and convoluted. The video performance then completely changed my mind. This seems to be a running trend for me and Peters products. I often read the book and think this ainít great, then as soon as I see a performance I think Ďboy heís turned this into a miracleí. Iíve never really had this so much with other performers but it has taught me one thing. Wait until itís realsed in video format.

Unfortunate that the link no longer works. Smile
Michael Zarek
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Quote:
On Mar 19, 2019, TheDBK wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 13, 2019, Arthur T wrote:
For me the video completely rescued the book/effect.(is3) after reading It I thought this is way to obvious and convoluted. The video performance then completely changed my mind. This seems to be a running trend for me and Peters products. I often read the book and think this ainít great, then as soon as I see a performance I think Ďboy heís turned this into a miracleí. Iíve never really had this so much with other performers but it has taught me one thing. Wait until itís realsed in video format.

Unfortunate that the link no longer works. Smile



It doesnít? Iím sure Peter can sort that out.

Also in those cases itís often good to download the most important videos
Reader discretion is advised.
Peter_turner
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Quote:
On Mar 19, 2019, TheDBK wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 13, 2019, Arthur T wrote:
For me the video completely rescued the book/effect.(is3) after reading It I thought this is way to obvious and convoluted. The video performance then completely changed my mind. This seems to be a running trend for me and Peters products. I often read the book and think this ainít great, then as soon as I see a performance I think Ďboy heís turned this into a miracleí. Iíve never really had this so much with other performers but it has taught me one thing. Wait until itís realsed in video format.

Unfortunate that the link no longer works. Smile


The link works Smile try it in all capitals!

:) x
SleightlyCurious
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Hi everyone,

Just wondering, has "Wish you were here" been uploaded yet as it still shows as "In Progress" on my page.

Thanks!
Always "sleightly" curious.
TheDBK
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2019, Peter_turner wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 19, 2019, TheDBK wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 13, 2019, Arthur T wrote:
For me the video completely rescued the book/effect.(is3) after reading It I thought this is way to obvious and convoluted. The video performance then completely changed my mind. This seems to be a running trend for me and Peters products. I often read the book and think this ainít great, then as soon as I see a performance I think Ďboy heís turned this into a miracleí. Iíve never really had this so much with other performers but it has taught me one thing. Wait until itís realsed in video format.

Unfortunate that the link no longer works. Smile


The link works Smile try it in all capitals!

:) x


Thanks! Smile
TheDBK
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Just to clear any confusion, I was talking about the Isabellaís Star 3 link not working (which it does, see Peteís post) not the Bigger Fish Files.
TheDBK
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Dang, I wish I could get this but I donít have enough money to spare for this right now Smile
Oh, and thereís 151 videos on this project? Thatís just insane. Must have been a crap ton of work on Peteís part. Kudos to you man!
K
252life
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Dbk...sell blood if you have to lol.
I canít imagine you not loving this.
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
TheDBK
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On Mar 24, 2019, 252life wrote:
Dbk...sell blood if you have to lol.
I canít imagine you not loving this.

How much is a liter of blood worth? Asking for a friend. Smile
252life
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Yeah, good point. A pricy item like this could literally kill you lol
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
252life
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We may have to move this discussion over to the Bizarre boards
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Latest and Greatest? Ľ Ľ Bigger Fish Files (73 Likes)
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