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M-Illusion Special user 549 Posts |
From what I know of Jonathan, and the times I have spoken with him, I don't think he is doing this to hurt the art, and I am sure he will make a publicized statement about his actions and his reasoning behind all of this.
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Evan Williams Elite user 439 Posts |
"I agree with Mr. Palmer, check out his website and their performance schedule. The Almighty Pendragons are not working very much these days. You rarely hear of them performing anywhere anymore."
One thing I forgot to add that has to do with this. I saw them in my hometown this year in Late Winter. I had bought front row, center seats on the balcony. When I got there, they had closed off the balcony due to poor ticket sales and instead I was put in the second row in the front. I didn't have any complaints about my seating of course, but I do remember looking back into the theater during the show and only seeing about 1/4 of the whole place full. It was a very good show though. Evan P.S. - I don't think it's that my town doesn't like magic. When DC came to town the tickets sold out within a few days! |
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Reis O'Brien Inner circle Seattle, WA 2467 Posts |
Guys, guys, guys.... I can completely understand why there are so many differing opinions on this subjuect. But, before we get to heated and riled there is one thing concerning the Pendragons that we must always keep in mind... Charlotte Pendragon is HOT!
So please, before we judge, remember the hottie. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
"Just knowing a secret is not the big thing about magic; the presentation, the way you do it is the important thing."
Derek Dingle "As long as we magicians can continue to come up with "inspiring presentations," we can continue to just do the same old things over and over again. Afterall, it's about presentation, right?" I couldn't have said it better myself
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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malini Loyal user 219 Posts |
I see Jonathan Pendragon has now personally commented and responded to much of this discussion, in the latest 'NZ Magic E-Zine'.
-malini |
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mdspark Special user 784 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-05-16 07:18, mezomagic wrote: While I think there are strong arguments for both sides of this issue...I tend to agree with mezomagic on this one... However, I think there is an even broader issue here... It is my understanding that the secret will be exposed with the ORIGINAL apparatus? If so, I feel this is a part of HISTORY... the original sub-trunk used by one of, if not THE highest paid and popular entertainers of the early 20th century. To expose it (when someone with enough interest and motivation could find the "secret" on their own anyway) is simply DISRESPECTFUL, in my opinion. Shame on the owners of the museum...IF they truely cared about preseving the memory of Harry Houdini, they should as themselves, "What would Houdini think of it?" |
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JoeJoe Inner circle Myrtle Beach 1915 Posts |
There has been a major over reaction by magicians on this subject. I stand with the Pendragons and support the museum ... Houdini took magic into the future and did not become a legend by doing 50 year old magic tricks.
I was self taught from the school library and knew the secret when I was 7 years old. Metamorphisis is aleady one of the most over exposed tricks out there, and I doubt you could find a single library anywhere in the US that doesn't have at least one explanation of it. Further, it is a museum - A PLACE OF LEARNING. The vast overall majority of it's visitors are Houdini fans that probrolly have already read books on him and already know how it's done. I seriously doubt anyone is gonna bother going there just to find out how Metamorphisis is done. They go there because they already love Houdini and want to learn more about him. So relax, exposure is not the #1 threat to magic - people continue to watch their favorite TV shows even when they know the ending. We are not the only ones that deal with expouse - Sex In The City filmed 3 differnt closing episodes so that nobody could reveal the ending before it was to air. Despite the fact that the episode has now aired, millions of people (including my girlfriend) will still tune in again to watch it again - even though they already know the "secret" ending. The point here is the same point Jonathan made in an alt.magic newsgroup post - YOU ARE THE MAGIC! Not the secret. Don't rely on secret knowledge to entertain your audience, focus on your presentation and showmanship and your plot and climax ... the suspence and drama of it all. That is what entertains an audience, people do not like to be fooled and if all you have is a series of deceptions you are not putting on a magic show. So let me close by revealing my number on secret: my personality. People like my magic only because they like my personality. I get people that do magic as a hobby all the time ask me to do the very tricks they own and know the secret to - they make these requests because they like the way I do the tricks, they want to see how I do the trick. They like my facial expressions, my one liners, and appreahite the time I've spent practicing until the moves are just perfect. If you go beyond just "fooling" people, you begin to "entertain" them ... and that is something that will out live you. That was Houdini's secret as well, he was a showman. It's not what you do, it's how you do it!
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
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kihei kid Inner circle Dog House 1039 Posts |
Why do I get the distinct feeling that Harry Houdini would not be happy about the fact that they are going to expose metamorphosis.
Just because it has been (over) exposed does not mean that we should keep exposing it over and over again, if one wants to take the time and effort to go to a place of learning to see how it is accomplished, then fine. But it is not right just to openly and blatantly show it to the world, see this is how it is done. Although it is obviously true there is more to magic than a secret it is also as obvious that you are not allowed to tell the secret. The next time I perform something someone is going to say, “how did you do that?” Will I respond by handing them a photocopy of the instructions for that effect? No. Why do people always respond with that question in the first place? There are many reasons why and one of them is that they do not know the secret behind it, and, it should stay that way. This is magic 101 guys! Never tell the secret! How many times have you bought an effect that clearly states that it is inherent upon you to keep it a secret? I can not speak for anyone else but I have a bulging file full of these.
In loving memory of Hughie Thomasson 1952-2007.
You brought something beautiful to this world, you touched my heart, my soul and my life. You will be greatly missed. Until we meet again “my old friend”. |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
How about we shout out the secrets the Pendragon's use when they perform. maybe a taste of their own medicine is what is needed!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
Good Job Johnathan...You made this even bigger that it was on its own. But that doesn't matter you do it different and better than everyone else. So this doesn't hurt.
Now sure the magic is not in the secret but in the presentation...but tell that to a 15 year old kid that just built his sub trunk and is trying to make himself known with the trick whose secret was just on the front page of the newspaper and all across the TV.
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
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Evan Williams Elite user 439 Posts |
"but tell that to a 15 year old kid that just built his sub trunk and is trying to make himself known with the trick"
<------ Right here, word for word... |
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Nick Wait Inner circle Lichfield, UK 1042 Posts |
I am certainly not in favour of the exposure, nor what I'm saying is that what the pendragons are doing is right. infact I feel it is wrong supporting such an unethical cause.
However in the words of Mr Pendragon: "There is more to magic than a secret, there is mystery and mystery comes from the unique presentation of an inspired performance." He's right. Remember the audience are already aware that it is a trick and not telling them the secret isn't going to mean they think it is real magic. By dressing it up though it can still be made entertaining. The method the museum is using is the basic methosand diferent methods have been devised. It can still leave the audience in wonder. |
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SHOC New user Las Vegas, NV 72 Posts |
I wonder if Pendragen plans to wear a mask?
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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts |
I think this is a very difficult subject. I understand both sides of this discussion. I'm just going to state some thought that came to mind reading the above posts. The exposure by this museum will be limited to those that visit the exhibition, I doubt the numbers will be significant in relation to TV exposure. People that attend will probably be those with an interest in magic or Houdini. Quite a few may already know the secret, those with an interest in Houdini are likely to marvel at the ingeniuous methods. The sub-trunk method is available to the public, I've found it exposed on the internet, public library and on TV (Masked Magician) and still the Pendragons and many others perform this illusion to an astonished audience. I've had most of my cabaret illusion act exposed by The Masked Magician here in the UK. I was very concerned when I saw my material exposed but it did not appear to affect the audience reaction and probably left them even more bewildered. I believe exposeure is wrong but it has always been and always will, just like magicians. I dare say Houdini would dis-approve of this exposeure but sadly he is no longer with us, we will never know for sure.
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Dr_Stephen_Midnight Inner circle SW Ohio, USA 1555 Posts |
I think another painful monkey wrench that needs to be thrown in here is that magicians, because they are so close to the subject, consider their doings to be far more important to the social fabric than they really are.
I've met performers who have placed such huge laurels of godhood on their own brows that they believe the public equates their names with Elvis, when the harsh reality is that if you were to mention their names to most laymen, the response would be "Who?" I've also seen magic enthusiasts who equate exposure of a secret with a nuclear strike on Washington D.C. For every layman who remembers what they saw on a Masked Magician special, there are millions more who did not see the special, don't remember what they saw, or just plain don't care. As for the sub trunk, ask any layman how the trunk/box works and just guess what the most popular response is, just guessing from the tops of their heads. (Hint: the response starts with a 'T'). I'm not saying this observation is the "end-all, be-all" of the issue, but it is a reality factor that must be factored in. Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No." Dr. Lao: "Wise answer." |
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