Hi folks,


I've been working on magic for about 2 and a half years. I'm not intermediate, but I'm a few notches past beginner. Most of what I've done is study and practice of sleights and tricks. I've performed occasionally for family and a few friends, but , to be honest, the idea of performing outside that rather small circle really scares me. One wise Café member told me that I just need to go out there and get busted -- thus increasing my confidence when I realize that the world doesn't end when I mess up.



But -- how do I find an audience? At feel at a bit of an impasse. I want to start small -- just a few spectators at a time -- and I don't want to just go up to strangers on the street and ask them if they'd be willing to help me advance my magic.



I guess my first step is to put together a small set of really well-rehearsed tricks, which I'm working on. But what then?



Any suggestions?



Thanks,



Bob

Where do you live, Bob?

Hi Dana,


Lancaster, PA, 70 mi. West of Philly. Have anything in mind? I was born and raised in Chicago -- don't know if Burger's school existed in the seventies when I had my first bout of magic fever... Of course, that's water under the bridge.


Bob

Hi again, Dana,


I know not much time has passed, but I was curious why you asked where I live.



Bob

How about Open Mic Nights or New Talent Nights at area venues?

Thanks, Mindpro. There are such places around here, and I'd consider them once I have more experience and confidence. Right now I'd like to work with audiences of 2-4. One idea I had was to contact local retirement homes or hospitals, and see if they'd be willing to suggest people who could form groups of that size. Even there, of course, I'd want my tricks and routining to be well-rehearsed so that I maximize the chances that I actually give at least some entertainment to the people kind enough to help me in this way.

I second Mindpro's suggestion.

I'll add a comment and, a question.

First, you must realize that magic is NOT INHERENTLY ENTERTAINING. The performers "job" is to make it entertaining, with his PRESENTATION. (It aint WHAT ya do, it's HOW ya do it!!!

You mention practicing "sleights and tricks". GOOD! Have you thought about PATTER & PRESENTATION? They are just as important, if not more so, than the trick, itself.

Also always remember the other side of the coin, the complete circle, or the full picture. Right now you are talking about and thinking what is of interest to you - to gain some performing experience in front of others rather than just family and friends - great.

However the moment you go from family and friends to others or strangers, a performance dynamic changes. There is now the rest of the circle or the other side of the coin to consider - those you are performing for. One of the greatest bits of advice I can offer is to start to think, operate and create from the other's point of view. What they would be interested in, like, enjoy and find interesting in the context of where you will be doing it? This all comes into play. If you are in a hustling and bustling subway commute, the interest and attention span of passers-by would be much different than if say in a park before or after a planned activity, game, etc.

Think from the recipient's perspectives. This is why it is a good idea to try to select who you want to perform for and try to find situations that can make this possible. For example if you want to target kids or a family together, find places where this target hangs out that would be appropriate for you to perform.

Later if you ever decide to start performing for paid clients and customers, you will then also have to add their (the paying/booking customer's) perspective to your thought process.

Remember, not everyone wants to be entertained or see a trick (something so many magicians don't understand). Don't be aggressive or pushy or you can set up a tone or dynamic that can work against you.

I had a student of mine once who was in the same boat and was looking for the same things you currently are. He was a bit intimidated, unsure of himself and only had three tricks that he felt were performance-ready. Because I discuss their (my student's) life, interests and other background details to help me better know them and understand their interests, I remembered him saying he was in Cub Scouts for 3 or 4 years as a kid. He was a Cub, Wolf and I think even a Weblow Scout. So I suggested why don't you call up some Den or Pack leaders and say you were once a scout, and your are now an amateur magician and would love to give somehting back to the scouts and would love to come to one of their meetings to demonstrate some magic. The first Den Father he called, said "I think this would tie in great with (I can't remember the name of) the badge we are working towards." He said he'd love to have him come for about 10 or 15 minutes to the next meeting of 6 kids. He did. He did some 1 on 2, 1 on 3 and even though he said he wouldn't, he did 1 on 6 to all of them and the Den Father. He thought it would be intimidating, but afterward in our next session he said it was his favorite part.

(On a side note, 9 months later the same Den Father called him and asked what he would charge to perform for their annual spring Blue & Gold Dinner Banquet. It became his (the beginning magician's) first paid gig!

I use this example to show there are many different places and possibilites where you can do this. Just be sure to consider and think from their perspective to try to create a mutually beneficial or win-win situation. The more you understand their perceptions, interests and position, the better you will be acepted to those you perform for.

Best of luck!

Hi Bob,
Great suggestions above. Here is the bottom line IMO. This is "my opinion". Yes you must get out there and perform on a regular basis. Sure, "independent living facilities are great. Notice I said,
Independent living. This clientele can be people in their 50's on up. Assisted living is a little more complicated with attention span for close-up magic. Stand up shows can be more widely accepted for the elderly.

These types of venues welcome entertainers (always) Look for other possible opportunities like fund raisers, spaghetti dinners, church bazaars, Lions Club type events, Veteran Appreciation events.
Check out the free newspapers like Pennysaver who advertise the goings on in the community.
Contact them and offer your services. Regardless.. you must perform on an ongoing basis and then you will learn from trial and error, successes and failures what works and what doesn't.

As I said in the past, you can read a hundred books and get advise from people on how to swim.
Take it all into consideration. BUT you must get into the water.

Don't get intimidated. You don't have to perform for a large group at these types of events.
You can find a couple people sitting at a table. You can just walk around and look for those that
seeem bored or uninterested (whatever) Will it be tough the first time? Yes.. so what.

Have fun and just get out there and SWIM. You will be richly rewarded and surprised how good you will feel.

Dick, Mindpro, and davidpaul$,




Thanks for all your great ideas and interesting stories. Dick, I've read enough to know that a trick has to be entertaining or it's just a meaningless exercise. But -- you, MindPro, got me thinking about entertainment in a way that I hadn't before. Half-consciously, I've been developing stories that *I'm* interested in to go with my tricks-- or stories that I think my grown daughter would have liked when she was little.



One example: I haven't worked out all the details, but I have an idea for a faux Sherlock Holmes story to go with the Biddle Trick. The five cards would be suspects that Lestrade rounded up for Holmes to interview. One of them (the card chosen by the spectator, representing the actual villain from among the suspects) would break out of jail. Now I know that friends and family will find such a story interesting, or at least be happy to humor me, but what happens when I perform for strangers? Would others be interested in a Sherlock Holmes story? Let's say, as you suggest, DavidPaul$, that a community group welcomes my performing at banquets for small groups of people. I'd have no idea of their interests. Well -- not quite true; if it's a veteran's group then they might have feelings about conflict, service to country, readjustment to civilian life... And no doubt they'd have other interests that I'd be unaware of. How would I approach constructing a short set that I could show to different small groups? I used the Veterans group idea intentionally because I have no direct experience of war and the military, though of course I watch the news and have watched documentaries about WWII, Viet Nam, and so on. I wouldn't know how to guess what tricks would likely interest a significant number of veterans.



My previous paragraph was genuine, not rhetorical or obstructionist. I really like the idea of going around to tables, and I think I'm reasonably good at talking to strangers. It doesn't come naturally to me, but I've learned by experience that one of the best ways to initiate a conversation with a stranger is to ask them about themselves. (And, as appropriate, offer things about myself.) That might well break the ice -- and, if I had a large repertoire (which I certainly don't yet), I could choose tricks on the basis of what I learned about people.



Then, Mindpro, there's your lovely story about the cub scouts. I have to think about whether I have similar experiences that might help me decide what groups to contact. One thing that occurs to me is my interest in music. At different times in my life I've sung in choirs, played in early music consorts, and (these days) taken piano lessons. And I love listening to many kinds of music. So maybe if there were a fundraiser for our (quite good) symphony orchestra, I could perform tricks related to music. (Of course, I'd have to have an inspiration -- find a trick or two that I liked for which I could think of a musical theme.) If there were a mystery-fiction book club in town (I'm not aware of one, but sometimes you don't know until you ask), the Biddle/Holmes trick might be just the thing.



David, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "Don't be intimidated" -- which I took to mean, "if you feel intimidated just ignore that and plunge in anyway." I sometimes wonder how I ended up being a professor, because in general, except with friends, I don't like being the center of attention. After many years of experience I find that, with the right combination of students in the class, we really hit it off and I enjoy being in the classroom. I tend to be very quiet with groups I don't know unless they respond to what I'm saying. If that happens -- if my students ask questions or suggest solutions, or if they make jokes -- then I can play off of what they said, be jokey or sympathetic or whatever in a natural way, and I really enjoy myself (and my students seem to enjoy the class too in such situations).



I hope you don't mind that rather long train of thought; I'm just trying to put together in my head what you've all said and what would be involved in getting out and performing. Having listened to you and thought this through a bit, it does seem like a real possibility. What I'm thinking is this: I have about two-and-a-half years till I retire. Right now I am *nearly* ready to perform 3-4 tricks. Once I retire I should have a bigger repertoire, and more time to do volunteer work that might lead to connections. At that point, especially without the constant pressure I feel in my job, I can imagine that I could leap over the Intimidation Barrier.



David, I can almost hear you saying (though I don't want to put words in your mouth), "But why wait so long? -- why not just get out there?" Regardless of what you were actually thinking, my reply to that question would be that the prospect of performing for people I don't know would be unbearable for me unless I felt *really* confident and well-rehearsed, and had a large enough repertoire (not sure what "large enough" would mean)). That's me -- I have a low anxiety threshold. Nevertheless, David, I find your last sentence inspiring.



I guess if I had to put in a nutshell why I do in fact find intimidating the idea of performing for strangers is that I don't feel like I have charisma or that I'm the life of the party. My personality does have a real sparkle for people I know and am comfortable with, and I can be an inspiring teacher, but it very much depends on the composition of the class. I have lots of interests and excitements, and some people really appreciate that. But I don't have the kind of presence that some people have that just draws people to them.


I want to thank all of you for your encouragement, and I'd welcome any further thoughts you want to share in response to what I just said.



Best Regards,



Bob

Hi again, folks. After writing the above, I looked for threads on stage fright, which I'm realizing more than ever is going to be my main problem in starting to perform. I found some good ideas, and I also noted, on other threads, that Funsway on the Café likes to temper advice to "just get out there" by saying, "But first achieve mastery." So I think I'm on the right track. Right now I'm still working to achieve mastery.



The only thing I'd now change in my idea of waiting until I retire is that there's no reason to set up an arbitrary starting point. If I feel ready before then, I'll go out there.



Dick, Mindpro, and David, Thanks again for all your wonderful advice. You've got me thinking along entirely new channels, and you've really added to my growth as a magician.



Bob

What some people like to call "street magic" is in reality Ambush Magic. The kind of thing where you just walk up to people not expecting anything and do some magic, for them. It's a great way to practice your skills with no pressure. Your not being paid so you don't have to worry about messing up or doing something wrong. Once you can consistently perform for those you don't know under these circumstances then you can move on to open mics and such.

The club area is very different from what I'm talking about and you will have to have an act that entertains the audience or you will be booed off the stage. So even before doing open mics "busking" is the way to go. That is real street magic and requires you to pass the hat. The beauty of busking is you can gauge how good you are, by the tips you get. Latter your street magic can be the foundation of your walk around act. But first Ambush, as you have nothing to lose. And before critics of mine say that the same is true in a open mic environment, it's not. And can lead to a reputation that's terrible and will follow you around for quite some time. Stick to ambush and work out your act.

I wish you only the best a offer this advice as it was passed down to me from some of the greats in our business. Come back to the thread when you have a video done by one watching you so we can see you in action. Much love.

I see the logic in what you're saying, Senor. Busking is kind of anonymous, and there's an advantage to that. I wouldn't be comfortable with just walking up to strangers, but I might consider setting up at a spot downtown during a festival, or on our street during our annual all-street yard sale, with a card table and a nice sign, and performing for whoever is interested. So, like the others, you're giving me ideas that I can adapt to my own personality. Much appreciated. Thanks also for the offer to watch a video of me performing for people.

Okay, here is a bit of advice although you may not be ready for it yet, but based on your above sentiments I think you are and will understand this.

Also, let me preface this as this is not in any way meant as a diss or slight (pardon the pun) to magicians in any way. Although Senor Fabuloso's post brought it to the fore, it is not in any way aimed at him directly either, other than being the source that brought it up and used as an example.

I have been working with, representing (through my 5 agencies), training, coaching, consulting and mentoring entertainers, performers, and of course many magicians for four decades (amateur to celebrities). I also have performed for over 40 years and still do including my annual Spring Tour that I have been doing for over 30 years now. So what I am about to explain is based on far more than just personal opinion, but from industry perspectives and real-world experience on a daily basis.

I work with all kinds of entertainers form amateur musicians, to aspiring comedians, to over 50 different type of live performers and entertainment businesses, and I can honestly say, without a doubt, magicians are very unique. They have several things about them not found in any other types of performers. There are many specific reasons for this, but that is another topic entirely. But his allows me to introduce the concept to hopefully allow you to consider, think about and hopefully understand.

There is something called "magician's thinking." It is unique to magicians and comes from many things but primarily how magicians discover magic and begin and what becomes their default mentality without being intentional, but it prominently exists. Many magicians fall victim to this.

Unlike most other types of performers (okay Karaoke) magicians can perform without any talent. This is due to self-working tricks. Anyone, your mom, brother, sister, friend, heck even your 92-year-old, wheelchair-bound aunt could do the self-working nickel slide trick or a host of other tricks usually found in magic kits. From this moment on is when magician's thinking begins. Some as they progress to serious levels may eventually make the realization and discover how it is actually quite limiting and debilitating. Others will do magic for 70 years and never overcome it and continually operate from the foundation of magicians thinking. For those just doing this for personal fun and fulfillment, this is great. It is for others more serious about performing for others that this is more of a concern.

I bring it up to make you aware of this and to offer you another perspective. A magician is someone who performs with magic. They need their magic tricks to perform. They are executors of magic tricks. Some will create stories and presentations around their tricks but what they are really doing is performing a string or sequence of tricks - executors of magic tricks. Any entertainment value for many of these people comes from the tricks and their performance of these tricks. Everything is based on them as a magician and how well they execute their tricks. Without their tricks they have nothing to perform. It is about them and their ability to perform their tricks. They perform tricks they want to perform, that they feel they are proficient in, and that they can perform for others. It is very much me-based in almost every aspect.

This is different than an entertainer. An entertainer entertains. Entertaining is different than performing or just executing. For entertainers that entertain with magic, they first discover they have to lose the magician's thinking and mentalities, and shift to that of an entertainer's. The foundation, acceptance, and approach becomes entirely different. First, they are not about their tricks - it is entertainment first which they realize must come from them - their personality, premise, backstory, character (if there is one) and then their skill or discipline. Their magic is only the tool they use. For magic entertainers, they see their magic (tricks) as simply what they use within their entertainment. They realize entertaining is about the audience first and foremost. They operate as an entertainer from the audience's perspective. They think of a greater picture than just from their magician's perspective. They realize they must determine who their audience is first, then create an entertaining performance around them (that may include magic).

Entertainment, the audience and then their means of skill and tools within this.

So first you should think about what do you want to be a magician and just performs your set of tricks or an entertainer whose primary purpose is to entertain their audience? Then determine what is needed and how best to pursue.

Many magicians just stop at their magic. They perform what they want to any type of audience as the audience is not one of their primary concerns, just their magic.

There is a difference in being an entertainer and just performing magic.

Next using Senor's thoughts about ambushing, street and busking, I have found that this puts far more stress and anxiety of a new performer than other approaches. Think about it, you are putting yourself in an unstructured setting, approaching (ambushing) unsuspecting people, often in places where it not welcome or may even be illegal, and performing for people who are not there or didn't ask to be performed for. Why put yourself in a position AS A NEW OR BEGINNING PERFORMER where the dynamics and odds are stacked against you? As a beginner you will mess up and make mistakes, why do that to an audience that is not there to see you or be entertained in the first place? Also, most new performers have not put much time or effort into audience management, staging, performance dynamics, and other elements crucial to a successful performance, so having these work against you in an unfavorable environment makes this even worse for newbies. Some would even say you are setting yourself up for failure. You are putting yourself in one of the hardest performance scenarios possible, one that even skilled, longtime performers would struggle with. Busking is an art and a skill that is not easily seen or understood by others, especially until you find yourself in the thick of it, then you realize quickly the true reality.

My point is quite simple, when beginning since you are creating your own opportunities to gain performing experience, there is no need to put yourself into high-risk or unfavorable performance situations. Outline a few key components you want or need for more of a comfortable less stressful performance situation, then pursue opportunities with those features. Find favorable and comfortable performance situations. It takes the same amount of time and effort to find good and favorable performing opportunities that it does to find poor ones.

My advice is it is early in the foundational aspects of what you are creating with performing, whether just for fun or with greater aspirations. By identifying these things at a foundational level, you can decide if you want to allow yourself to go down the path of magician's thinking or something greater.

Senor is a prime example of someone who has operated years from the perspective of magician's thinking. It is prominent in each and every post. He may be fine with it, but when offering advice to others it all comes from this single limiting perspective. Advice such as sure, throw yourself to the wolves at a time when you are new with little or no experience by "busking" is the exact type of thinking that comes from this. This is just like the parent that throws their 3-year-old into the pool and claims "this is how you will learn to swim." Could it work, sure, possibly, but you can bet there will be some swallowing of water, great fear, panic, maybe puking, and perhaps, just perhaps, create a fear of water they will never get over and carry for the rest of their lives. There are other, more productive, beneficial, and less detrimental ways to learn how to swim, that make it fun enjoyable, accomplishing, and exhilarating. Same for your current pursuit.

An entertainer's perspective would be, "where could I go that would have closer to an ideal kind of audience, that people would welcome or want to see entertainment, that is less stressful, that has the best chance for me to be successful? Where I can truly entertain people?" It's up to you to decide which is better for you and which offers the greater scenario and possibilities for you, what you are looking to achieve and where you want to go.

I post this only to introduce you to the concept of "magician's thinking" and to show you there is a choice and another perspective, mentality and approach. The structure and habits you form now as a beginner will be what everything in your future will be based upon. At least now you have a couple of approaches and perspectives to consider.

1. It's never illegal at least where I have been to perform, without asking for money.
2. Somebody doesn't want to see your magic move on to those who do. It's simple just ask "can I show you something" The same technique is used in walk around magic.
3. Magician thinking is what we do as magicians and performer and entertainers. Most importantly we are PERFORMING ARTISTS if "we are not performing we are not doing anything artistically" Doing a show once a year does not qualify as active participation, in the magical arts. Look for people working every week and at regular gig or professionals who tour more days than they are off.
4. NOBODY is an expert on this or any other art. What we are, is people who have found our way. THERE IS NO all inclusive RIGHT WAY to do it as there are as many ways to work, as there are magicians. BEWARE ANYBODY who tells you, my way is the only way or the only right way.

Like what you did Bob, when I made a suggestion, that didn't actually work for you. You processed the information and figured how you could do, what WOULD work for you. That's what ALL performing artistes are about. It's why not every dancer, daces ballet. Or why every singer, doesn't sing ballots. Or why we have comedy magicians, mentalists, illusionists, restaurant workers, buskers, and everything else. Suggesting that there is only one way shows an arrogance and hardheadedness unconducive to helping others, in an attempt to self aggrandize themselves. Not that anybody in this thread has done this.

These forums are great but all manner of people post. You never know who has an agenda and who doesn't? Look for those who are supportive and give of themselves freely without trying to put anybody down. It's unnecessary and uncalled for. It helps no one and just show clearly, who is here to help and whom have some very serous problems.

Again have fun Bob the journey is wonderful. Finding your way is what will make you standout, from everybody else.

Just to be clear based on some of the PMs I've been getting - I am not saying its magicians vs. entertainment. Magicians can be entertaining no doubt. What I was emphasizing was magcians vs. entertainers in thinking, approach, and operation. Much in the same way there is a huge difference in performing vs. entertaining.

Glad so many found this helpful and it created insight beyond just magic or magician's thinking.

While this may not be a problem where you are in Spain, it is a huge problem here and IS illegal in many places in the U.S. More and more cities and municipalities, including here in the entertainment capital of the world in Las Vegas, have laws and ordinances in place forbidding or governing street performers of any kind, busking. In addition, many places that do allow it have guidelines, policies and procedures in place as to exactly who, when, where and how they are permitted to do so, all of this whether money is collected or not.

So Senor's opinionated statement is clearly false and untrue in an overall sense (unless you live in Spain supposedly). Just to clarify and separate fact from opinion.

I've performed all over the world and you can find the TRUTH here http://www.buskersadvocates.org/saalegal.html Once again we see where falsehoods actually come from. As I said earlier BEWARE those who try to put down others. It shows the TRUE MENTAL state and problematic self indulgence. Oh and by the way, this would be again, for those soliciting money.

Bob,

I see this thread has exploded since I was last here. I haven't read the thread. The length of MindPro's posts have intimidated me. LOl! So I just dropped in to suggest a couple things. I don't know if this has been covered.

First, why don't you contact the outreach person at Lancaster General Hospital on Duke St., the Lancaster Cancer Center, and the Keystone Cancer Center at UMPC Lancaster, and ask them about performance opportunities. You will never find a more forgiving and more appreciative audience than those who are hospitalized, particularly with cancer. I'd also look at local childrens hospitals, if you're good with performing kids magic. Your desire to perform for very small groups of people is perfect for these places. And an hour at these places will give you valuable experience in a low stress environment, will make you feel really good, and will do an enormous service for people who will drink up your efforts with glee. The only things to remember in those places are that there may be some limitations in what you can do (patients with mobility or other problems), and most importantly that you not perform AT these people, but primarily consider it a visit with people whose lives will be benefited by a kind word, with your magic thrown in. These are FANTASTIC places to get flight time in a no risk environment, where both you and your audiences will be enriched.

Second, while I haven't read what everyone else says about this, do magic that appeals to YOU. As an amateur, you have the luxury of not having to play to the masses. And your magic will be better and your performance more engaging when you are doing magic that speaks to you and excites you. There are many rooms in the house of magic, and you have the luxury of occupying your own space without having to worry about maximizing your economic opportunities.

Finally, don't be afraid to fail. You MUST fail. We ALL fail, no matter how experienced or expert. Don't let fear of failure or discomfort slow you down. ***The ONLY consideration for you, right now, is flight time.*** More flight time is better, no matter where, or when, or how successful, or what the audience, or what material you do. Go to the hospitals and retirement homes, find a table at a party and just start playing with cards until someone asks you, and find little fundraisers looking for entertainment. All those places, and more, offer small, willing audiences, with zero risk and lots of flight time. You don't have to have a perfect set. You don't have to be a polished performer. You just have to get out there and do it. Do it despite the fear, not only when fear is absent. Do it when you are MOST afraid. You'll find that the world doesn't end, that you learn much more from failure than from success, and very quickly that fear erodes and is replaced with knowledge, experience, and confidence.

Go get 'em!

Addendum:

I actually don't know how to go out and find these, but I am constantly being asked to perform informally at small-scale fundraisers. Sometimes it's strolling magic, sometimes it's a little parlor set, sometimes it's more formal. Sometimes they pay, sometimes they want volunteers. I don't do these very often, but every time I do one, I get a bunch of requests to do others. So I suspect that if you find one, you'll get more such opportunities. Do them all.