Over the years I've collected stuff on Palmistry, Cartomancy, reading ESP cards and other odd reading material but let's limit it to these three.

So I've always wrestled with which one to really put the time into and chuck the others. I mean only to use while I'm performing in my limited capacity not to use specifically to sell myself as a "reader"

For you guys/gals that do this a lot which one do you recommend will give me the most opportunity to use?

Thanks

Whatever you perform, as in, if you use playing cards a lot, then cartomancy makes sense...

I do yea use cards a lot. I try not too lately but invariably they come out. I don't carry cards. Only when I know I am going to show someone magic I will bring them to a party or someone's house. So for this reason I lean towards Palmistry.

What do you find you use most Iain?

Seems like cartomancy is the biggest bucket that can be used with the most things. Personally, and this is just a personal preference, I hate the idea of using ESP symbols as a reading system. I know there is some really good work on this (Dyment for instance). But to me, ESP symbols are well known as a scientific testing method and to combine this "tool" with an oracle just doesn't seem to match (for me). They just don't leave enough to the imagination or enough variability in my mind. They are in essence no different than a "rune", but at least with runes, you have more of them, you have tales of vikings and gods and magic that make for good story telling. There just isn't enough "archetype" built into ESP symbols that make them "interesting."

Palmistry is beautiful, and it has a lot of entertainment value, even if you don't pretend to be a "reader." But I tend to see Palmistry as not part of other routines. This is a personal preference of mine though.

With Cartomancy, however, you have the benefit of hundreds of years of history for entertaining stories and presentation (at least as perceived by the masses), the use of all the nine digits of numbers for numerology, the use of pictures, allusions to seasons and symbolic representations of nature, and it can naturally be woven into many mentalism card routines. Cards are always there somewhere, so the potential for learning Cartomancy seems to have the most application value.

I share all this with the idea that you are NOT presenting yourself as a reader, but just using an oracle that is a compelling layer to many mentalism presentations.

Not debating anyone here. A lot of what I just shared is based on my personal preferences and comfort.

I don't do palmistry and I too am against esp cards being used as a reading tool...

John, spend a little time looking into the history of playing cards and tarot and you might be surprised...

Palmistry is too aligned with a traditional reading, and esp is too confusing in some ways, using a scientific set of items for something that's a bit woowoo...

If you already use playing cards, then cartomancy can slot in alongside it to provide extra depth or as a segue into more interesting things...

John:

My experience as a reader is limited. sp take this cum grano salis.

Consider Graphlogy.

If you have spectators write anything, it is an easy add. And people find it believable. it does not, however, lend itself to historical mystery and storytelling as much as some of the other approaches.

George

George are you trying to confuse me?!? I've looked at graphology once when I was at the South Florida fair. Seems cool. It's not intuitive for me.

Red, Yes there isn't enough for me in ESP cards. Not enough to work with for a parttimer like me. I don't think I'm serious enough to be a palm reader.

Iain, yea, I have studied Cartomancy for a few years off and on with your book, Julian's book, Scott Creasey and some other misc stuff. I think with Cartomancy there's a lot to work with and it doesn't matter how many cards you use or how little. Also it bleeds into numerology of course and by learning Cartomancy I would have a handle on reading birthdays perhaps by virtue of knowing the meaning of the numbers. There's a lot to like and work with.

I think I need to say YES to Cartomancy and rid myself of all the other books, pdfs, videos, in my library as not to distract.

If any one ever reads me talking about anything else please call me out on it.

Thanks

John, based on your past experience and current presentations, I would agree that cartomancy makes sense for you. I am being objective here as that is a choice I have not made for myself. I use tarot and have learned to read tarot cards well. I also perform some mentalism with tarot cards. For me, it is by far the most esoteric of the readings and the best fit with mentalism. I don't use playing cards much so that would not work for me.

If you wanted to take the time to learn tarot, I would consider it time well spent but with the question as you ask it, cartomancy seems best for you at this time.

A quick question for John C. Do you consider yourself a mentalist or a magician? I've followed and respected your posts for years, bought (and recommended to others as well) your releases and am seriously curious. Also, please do not answer with "I am just an entertainer" or "I really don't view my performance that way, as long as they are entertained", which is how I would guess you would likely answer. If you had to pick between the two choices magician or mentalist? Thanks!

I'm working on my answer.

I divide readings into 3 main types. Your choice of which to use will depend upon what you want the reading to do.

Descriptive readings tell a person about himself. I use colors and palmistry for these. Graphology is another good example, also numerology.

Predictive readings describe the future.

Prescriptive readings indicate a course of action.

For the last 2, I use runes and cards (tarot or playing).

If you want to sit at a table and answer questions, I suggest tarot. It is recognized widely and has enough esoteric cachet to have a certain cred with people that not all reading methods do.

If you want real versatility, I suggest palmistry. You don’t need a table or a deck. You need a hand, your voice, and adequate light. That’s all. And work out approaches for both a 5 minute reading and a 20 minute reading. I use tick sheets that fold in half to the size of a business card. It is really fun to see how people keep them. When I do palms, the closest I come to a prediction is a very general trend.

I also have an answer for questions about my beliefs in palmistry. I say that there is a real and established system to palm readings that works by interpreting the traits of the hand according to historical meanings. Whether one believes or not, the reading is the same and I find the system itself to be inherently interesting. Rather like medieval alchemy, which looked at 4 elements and is delightfully interesting even though we now know there are a lot more than elements than 4. People nod. I then say I had zero belief in palmistry when I started learning and now I believe about 60%. It is up to you to decide how much if any to believe. But it is interesting no matter what.

My main resources for palm readings (though I have about half a dozen shut eye books) are Julian Moore’s book, Paul Voodini’s video (available as a download from his site), and the Leaping Lizards dvd set.

Patrick

Palmistry all the way

Y

Nothing to carry with you, quick to get into, most people know about it, easier to do and remember than tarot/playing cards.

Good answer. I agree. There's the dilemma.

I've known John c on here for years now, I would definitely say esp and palmistry won't fit how he performs and the manner in which he presents things...

Cartomancy might not fit either after he tries it out a while too... But as he's not going into the whole psychic entertainment side of things, nothing too heavy and nothing too overt in its delivery...

He'll need to give it three to six months to find out doing it for people to really get a feel for it... I'm only recommending cartomancy cos you can mix it in with card based mentalism fairly easily and can add an extra depth to card work in general...

That's how I see it anyway...

I find palmistry boring though I am still willing to do it for money. Tarot is the way to go if willing to put in the time and most people prefer that as well. I do all readings and get few request for palms and many for tarot. However, if John wishes to keep working with playing cards, then cartomancy might make more sense for him. I would even do numerology before palmistry as it can be linked to either cards or tarot.

I think you're right.

A while ago I bought this:

https://www.geminiartifacts.com/collecti......tifactum

and

https://www.geminiartifacts.com/collecti......adar-pro

I love the kadar pro. It's a fun thing to learn. It can be tongue in cheeck or as serious and in depth if you want.

The Artifactum is not so easy more serious.

But yes, like Iain says, I would be more likely to get more from learning Cartomancy than any other.

I would never give Tarot a shot. That's not in the running. Not for me. I could never sit that long. haha

I also tried out the Gypsy Witch cards. Those are fairly easy but I can't see me carrying those around. Too much stuff written on them.

Iain knows I'm not likely to go in a pub or a fair and setup shop doing readings. But I'd like to spend some time actually learning the meaning the ins and outs of the playing cards and putting it all together instead of just reading books and pdfs about it all which is all I've been doing for a few years.

I don't do readings a lot, and don't consider myself a reader in any way - so not sure how relevant my post will be for you, but I went on a search for some type of reading system a couple of years ago because I do see how it adds a personal connection and impact to a performance. After looking at many of the systems, I ended up going with Tree Reading.

"Doodle Me a Tree" by Andy Fisher, and "Telltale Trees" by Ethel Johnson both were extremely helpful.

Very quickly, I was able to do a basic reading on someone's sketched tree, and was a bit stunned by the positive reaction I received from the participant.

Now, I incorporate a tree reading before going in to a drawing duplication. I have the participant draw two images -- one that I tell them to draw and I see (a tree), and one image of their choice, that I don't see (wink, wink). Once I know that image, I can use some of the characteristics I talk about from their tree to lead me into a reveal for the second drawing.

Plus, now that I've done this a bit for people, I'm surprised by how many people come up (who know me) and ask for a reading, or bring over a friend.