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Kozmo
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Read what I said...i said I challenged myself by showing up with no money...i had a credit card...and I only made $275...23ll a lot of guys make that a week...so I was ok...you are pressing here...and being insulting...and I'm starting to not like you...what makes you so special...i have promoted evnts that are just as big as anything that you are involved in....i own a company...and I get to travel the earth and I promise you I will not die poor....why are you here anyways?.....

to tell the truth.....busker fests just aren't that great....you have to share a pitch...wouldn't it be ebtter wo work a fest that has 250,000 peopl and you don't have to share?..

the truth here is this...buskers....beggars as our new friend calls us should be the most persued entertainers in the world...why is it that we aren't...i mean a festival pays a juggler to ride around ona unicyle for a couple hours....$500...when a great juggler might be willing to work all week for twice that if hes just allowed to pass his hat?....what a deal for the festival...right...so why ar we religated to work for busker fests....every festival in this country...on this planet should be a busker fest....thats the truth...well our new friend is telling us ..you and I although I already know why.....because we often say the wrong things...and the fests get complaints...like this gets when he has gazzo...there are a lot of performers that can no longer work great fests because of this....fellas...theres a better way...i have been doing this for years....go get some festival work...and if we develop enough festivals..this new friend of ours wouldn't be able to find performers...because we would already be booked....

I'm booked basically for the season....taking september and october off.....to spend watching my son play footbnall...now would a beggar do that...

koz
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Kos and others. May I ask a simple question?
Why is it all right to insult people on the street and not right to insult them here?
I await your answer with baited breath.
Review King
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GP The Café has rules that explain about insulting folks:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......39&0

It's a gathering place for magicians to help each other. It's helped me, that's for sure. It's the best place of its kind on the net!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Kozmo
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I never said it was all right. I just said you have the right to do it. God bless America. Look, we are beggars, God knows. But at least this is an art and when they leave they think we are good at what we do, that we aren't swindlers, and we are not beggars. 3 card monte guys, for God sakes, a Svengali pitch man. Thank God we haven't stooped that low.

We are respectful people!

kazzie wassie
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I always thought beggars were people that came up to you saying "can you spare some change". I've always found Street performers to be Entertainers that use the street as their venue and that when they are good, people LOVE them and are all too willing to show their appreciation.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
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Chris. It ill behooves him to chatter about rules when street magicians break them all the time. They work in other countries without work permits. They "flypitch" in places where they are not supposed to be working. They do not have street licences when they are supposed to.

Furthermore they do not conform to the rules of high society. They must try and learn to be posh like me.

I will try to help them in this regard.

You will all learn to love me eventually. It will take practice though. Think of how long it took you all to learn the cups and balls.
Review King
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The law handles the rules of the street. I was talking about the Café rules and offered a link to them for those that were interested.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
wayno
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Quote:
On 2004-05-10 19:41, General Practicioner wrote:
Kos and others. May I ask a simple question?
Why is it all right to insult people on the street and not right to insult them here?
I await your answer with baited breath.


Are you in here to entertain others, or simply yourself?
Wayne Stevenson
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Review King
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Ditto Wayno. I think he's just stirring the pot.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Vick
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While we posters here may not enjoy or agree with your posts, at least it is getting interest and allowing us to exchange ideas
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Jeff Dial
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Back to Darryl's original question. I have only seen Cellini lecture, but was wondering if Cellini or Jeff Sheridan rate on the "insulting scale"? From what I saw and heard of Cellini he would seem to fall in the "less insulting" side of street magic. I've never seen him on the streets so it is just an impression.

Anyone who has seen Cellini or Sheridan could you give us your impressions?
"Think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise" HHGG
Mark Rough
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On 2004-05-10 15:57, General Practicioner wrote:

I see that the gentleman from Virginia is a mentalist. They of course take themselves far too seriously and of course do not understand humour. Perhaps he needs to get a sense of it. I will be delighted to educate him on the matter.

I fear that he is not street beggar material.



Take myself seriously? Nah. No sense of humor? Why don't you come pay this gentleman a visit and I'll show you what a Virginia sense of humor is all about. We love humor down here, and we are well mannered and polite. However we are more appreciative of irony, a sophisticated, intelligent form of humor, than we are of sarcasm. Oops, that was sarcasm but then again, I just live here, I'm not from here. None the less, I'd be delighted to see if you can teach me anything. PM me if you want directions.

And you're right, I'm not "street beggar material" but I'm becoming a fine busker thanks to folks like Koz, Dan, Brother David, Cellini, and, yes, Mr. Crude and Rude himself, Gazzo. Some the best teachers I have not had the opportunity to meet yet. I hope to someday soon.

Your Virginia Gentleman friend,
Mark
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Doug Peters
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Quote:
On 2004-05-10 23:38, Jeff Dial wrote:
Anyone who has seen Cellini or Sheridan could you give us your impressions?


Jeff works silently Smile
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
Kozmo
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Cellini is as sweet as pie on the streets for the person that asked.

koz
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I have never seen a mentalist street entertainer. Very difficult to pull off I imagine. This breed are pretty boring even in their own venues.
It might be possible I suppose if the performer were funny and the tricks were direct
I can't see it working though.

Hypnosis show in the street? Maybe. I did see one on the back of a lorry (truck) once.

No perhaps not. Just thinking out loud.

Here is an interesting scenario for all you street begg---oops! Sorry. Buskers.

I only saw it once and it was the weirdest thing. I was too dumbstruck to laugh even though I wanted to.

I was once on the London underground subway system otherwise known by Londoners as the Tube. At one station a fellow came on in a tuxedo type costume obviously a magician. He set up at one end of the subway car and had some kind of battery sound system with him. He played some music and did a mini silent act. I was so suprised by this that I forget now what he did. Card manipulations I think.
The act lasted about two minutes or so then he packed up quickly and went around to each passenger with a hat collecting donations.
After the train drew into the station he would rush out and enter the next car to repeat the procedure again. I think that time between stops in London are about 4 to 5 minutes. This gave him enough time to enter the car, set up and perform and rush around after to collect money.

After he left I remember a woman passenger said to her husband "there's a new job for you, George"
Most of the passengers smiled at the intrusion. A few frowned. A few like me sat there dumbstruck with the novelty and audacity of it all.

The chap was a vagabond of the first order.

I have never seen this before or since. Perhaps it was
a mirage.

An idea for some of you.
Don't say I don't give you anything.
Al Kazam the Magic Man
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Just had to chime in here. After reading many of Mark Lewis's post at the Magic Chat site, I've got to go with Robert's hunch here. Almost so carbon copy of style and put downs, I thought it from the start.
JoJo

Maybe we all should call him Mark Lewis from now on.
Al Kazam --> Magic guy in Perth Australia
Danny Hustle
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I am NEVER insulting to my audience. I am funny. Some of the things I say might seem insulting if they were said to a “stranger” but the people in my audience are hardly strangers.

This is something that I do not believe has ever been approached on this forum and one of the reasons I asked GP to come here (Yup, I invited him). He makes me think of the things I do not normally think about.

Anyway, before I say anything to a spectator that might be considered barbed I have made them a confidant first. I know their name, I have made much eye contact. What I mean by that is I have looked them in the eye and acknowledged them. They have also acknowledged me. We play on the same team. He is inside the circle, he is part of my show. Before I make delivery of any “funny” comment in his general direction I have made several more that are self effacing.

By the time I focus on him, he and I are friendly or at least acquainted. It is never seen as insulting, they always laugh first. If they are not comfortable I will lose my hat. I do NOT want that to happen.

It works for me.

I do not know for sure about GP but I believe MOST of what he says is delivered with a smirk. He contradicts himself at every turn and will reinvent his persona in an instant to suit a particular situation. Because of this I know he CHOOSES his manner of delivery to get a rise out of you (us, me). Taking this into account, he is being funny not arrogant. When he says he is the greatest entertainer in the world I do believe that he believes that. But, he has on more than one occasion been very self effacing and down playing of his character.

I have had a few private exchanges with GP through email and he is a very smart, very funny, very knowledgeable, man.

He knows general magic, working a pitch, hypnotism, marketing (although do NOT ask him about cold calling), fortune telling, necromancy, mentalisim, cold reading, prop building, performance, etc. etc. etc.

Really, the depth of the guy’s knowledge is impressive. Get past the dead pan anvil drop delivery and ask him a question on any form of our art/craft. You will get an excellent answer. Of course he will preface it with a blustering barb but I think that is just to see what you are made out of.

GP does not like arrogant people. When he encounters one he gives them a taste of their own medicine. I have seen him deflate some pretty big egos on other boards. Take the barbed intro with a grain of salt and read the meat of the message. You will find excellent information.

Mark, I hope you hang around and cheer up.

Best,

Dan-

P.S. This is a great thread. Now why don't we just stop commenting on Gp's delivery and focus on the message. That might drive him right round the twist, or bore him. Smile
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ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2004-05-10 18:25, tedb wrote:
Read what I said...i said I challenged myself by showing up with no money...i had a credit card...and I only made $275...23ll a lot of guys make that a week...so I was ok...you are pressing here...and being insulting...and I'm starting to not like you


Welcome to a vast and growing group of people who have run into "Lawrence" (Mark, your style stands out a mile away. If you're "Lawrence Zane," you're sitting in a trance at the computer while Mark channels through you!)

Posted: May 16, 2004 2:18pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On 2004-05-10 19:54, tedb wrote:
I never said it was all right. I just said you have the right to do it. God bless America. Look, we are beggars, God knows. But at least this is an art and when they leave they think we are good at what we do, that we aren't swindlers, and we are not beggars. 3 card monte guys, for God sakes, a Svengali pitch man. Thank God we haven't stooped that low.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Shame he's been kicked out again. This would have reached him for sure!

Seriously, you are not beggers because you are providing something for the money. In fact, you are the only entertainment where the audience is free to decide how much the entertainment was worth [after] the fact! (Wouldn't it have been nice to see Stars Wars I and decide afterwards how much your ticket was worth?) I don't do street performing. When I lived in NYC, I tried it a couple of times and did all right, but certainly not to the standards (artistic or monetary) of the people on this board. Since moving to Providence, I haven't performed. Maybe, if I get my nerve back up, I might go up on the East Side where the college crowd hangs out... that might be the only spot where a street performer wouldn't get hasseled. (WaterFire's get too dark.)

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On 2004-05-10 23:38, Jeff Dial wrote:
Back to Darryl's original question. I have only seen Cellini lecture, but was wondering if Cellini or Jeff Sheridan rate on the "insulting scale"? From what I saw and heard of Cellini he would seem to fall in the "less insulting" side of street magic. I've never seen him on the streets so it is just an impression.

Anyone who has seen Cellini or Sheridan could you give us your impressions?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sheridan didn't speak when he was a street performer so he couldn't insult people. I saw Cellini once outside "A Chorus Line" working the intermission people. He showed quiet dignity and grace. (This was of course, many years ago. I don't know what either performer is doing now although I've heard Sheridan is focusing on mentalism in Germany)

Posted: May 16, 2004 2:24pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2004-05-11 10:17, General Practicioner wrote:
Here is an interesting scenario for all you street begg---oops! Sorry. Buskers.

I only saw it once and it was the weirdest thing. I was too dumbstruck to laugh even though I wanted to.

I was once on the London underground subway system otherwise known by Londoners as the Tube. At one station a fellow came on in a tuxedo type costume obviously a magician. He set up at one end of the subway car and had some kind of battery sound system with him. He played some music and did a mini silent act. I was so suprised by this that I forget now what he did. Card manipulations I think.
The act lasted about two minutes or so then he packed up quickly and went around to each passenger with a hat collecting donations.
After the train drew into the station he would rush out and enter the next car to repeat the procedure again. I think that time between stops in London are about 4 to 5 minutes. This gave him enough time to enter the car, set up and perform and rush around after to collect money.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When was this? I saw a steel drum performer in the NYC subway back in the 70's who did the same thing.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Bob Johnston
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General Practicioner and DarryltheWizard:

You mean well but you are missing the point. Gazzo and Mullica know exactly what they are doing. The same way that Don Rickles knows what he is doing.

Do you really think they dress “slovenly”

so “the crowd must feel sorry for them and they tend to drop more money into the hat,” do you really believe that. Please let me elucidate something for you. They Do It To Get Attention, They Live On Tips.


Everything they do is to get people to come over to their show. They must be loud and visually attract attention or they would not survive. It is the way that street magicians have worked for hundreds of years. It is, in fact, the origin of all magic shows.

One of you said “The crowd laughed, but it wasn't funny to the man with the bike. He just kept walking.” Hello, most humor is done at someone’s expense. Very few entertainers can do (or survive) on self deprecating humor, Steve Martin is of coerce a wonderful example of a successful “self deprecating” entertainer.

One of you said, “I have seen many mainstream workers as well as street workers bring the art of magic down with this filth.” Do you think that magic is some sort of historically holy occupation?

One of you said, “you can still take in money by moderating the rough stuff. Plenty of money”,

On what do you base this kind of statement? How long have you spent working the street to pay the bills and feed your family?

Here is the most amazing thing one of you said

“If every street worker was rough and crude then the word would get around and nobody would want to watch any of them.”

Hello, word DOES get around, that is why they have big crowds around them. When many of them to fairs and other gatherings with a “captive” audience, they work in a very different mode. There is no need to get people to gather around them with the same intensity, as they must do on the street.

I just spent the afternoon with a nationally known magician that works the streets often. I can tell you that your statement that “am quite sure that the more they deal with humanity the more they take a cynical attitude towards people.”

I would suggest that YOU may have a very “cynical attitude towards people.”

One of you stated that

“The street magician should remember that the person he looks down on in his audience may well be someone who can earn in his "boring" job in one month what a street magician can earn in a year.”

Do you hear yourself? Do you have any idea how much a street worker makes. How many street workers have you spoken to in order to know that they “looks down on in his audience,” where do you get that information.

I can tell you that I do not like the demeanor of some of the street workers, but I do not look at them the way you two seem to look at them. I do not think they (as one of you said) “bring the art of magic down with this filth.”

Bob
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Wellington old chap. I fear you have a lot to learn about the ART of magic. Never fear my friend. I will be very happy to help you in your quest for knowledge.

Now do pay attention, there's a good fellow.

First I must say that I certainly agree with you that
Mullica, Gazzo and that rather unfunny elderly American comedian you mentioned know what they are doing.
But then Heidi Fleiss also knew what she was doing when she opened a brothel.
Or Dr Crippen knew what he was doing when he murdered his wife and shoved her in the cellar.
Just because you know what you are doing does not make it the correct procedure.

There is NEVER an excuse for vulgarity in a performance of magic. Such disgusting things as pulling cards out of your fly, doing that dreadful and socially unacceptable trick known as the Ding Dong and making low class jokes in a low class manner for low class people.

Only low class people perform in such manner.

I well remember viewing a video of Tom Mullica years ago using a four letter word. He asked his spectator if he had passed wind from a lower part of this gentleman's anatomy. Of course he used a very bad word to describe the activity in question. I am not quite sure what it had to do with card in wallet.

I also saw him in an even more dreadful video in recent years which was in even worse taste. Any performer who does tricks with chewing gum should be sent to a prison in Iraq and looked after by US troops.

Come to think of it any human being who chews gum in the first place should be isolated from humanity as this is not the sort of activity that should be encouraged by people of good breeding.

Neither GP or Darryl said one word about being loud or visually attracting attention. Do read the posts again with more thoroughness ,there's a good fellow.

Instead they both commented on vulgarity and the insulting people in a most uncouth and socially unacceptable manner.

I take issue with your inaccurate statement that few entertainers can use humour without insulting people. Tommyrot and fiddlesticks. I can name probably a hundred or so legendary comedians who never in their lives utttered a single insult line. I am a very busy and important person so I know that you will forgive me if I do not list them here. I do however expect you to do so yourself as a valuable exercise as part of your education.

I do not think that magic is "some sort of holy historical occupation". I do however think that it is a great ART that should not be debased by vulgarity and crudeness of the type that is enjoyed by a certain class of people who are not as high class as they could be.

You ask how many hours that GP has spent "working the street" as you put it. Tut.Tut. Dearie me. Tut, Tut.
I happen to know that GP is not the sort of person who finds it necessary to make a living by providing that sort of entertainment although he does have some respect for those who do providing it comes up to the standards that he deems sufficient for his approval.

He has however drawn and kept the attention of more crowds than anyone on this board including I dare say yourself. I may be wrong in this statement but I doubt it. Being wrong is not a situation than I normally find myself in. In any event GP has drawn literally thousands of crowds over a period of decades. He knows whereof he speaks.

Furthermore GP said "if EVERY street magician performed this way" I should also emphasise the word IF.
Luckily every street magician does not work this way. IF they did then I hold to the statement that people would be reluctant to watch them.

There is utterly no excuse for vulgarity in a magic performance of any kind. Insult humour can perhaps be used in a moderate manner provided it is clean and the person insulted is not offended. And neither should anyone in the audience be.

There is an old saying that I commend to you. "if in doubt, cut it out.

Now I do hope you will consider the error of your ways and I expect a more respectful attitude to an ancient and honourable art in the future.

Go and sin no more.
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