Hi, this is my first topic on the Magic Café.

I've been learning sleights, effects, tricks, double lifts, etc., etc. for the last 6 months, so I had bought a great deal of bicycle decks which had been recommended to me by many sources. In fact I don't own any other decks.
This week I purchased McBride's munipulation DVD, and for most of the parts in it, it looks like McBride is using some other deck, maybe tally-ho's?
Also is he using the standard card size? He doesn't mention anything about card types. in vol 1 anyway.

Anyone find bikes hard to backpalm? I find them a bit stiff for my liking; am I just being a wimp ..?

Any help appriciated in this new world I'm heading into.

tia

x jason.

Bikes are for card tricks.

Manipulations are different, and you need to buy decks for that kind of work. Norm Nielsen sells a great deck with a flesh colored back.

Juliana Chen uses cards of her own design, they can be either black or white backed, depending on the direction you hold them... she changes based on the background she works in front of.

Some years ago plaid back Steamboats were preferred, as the color blended in with your fingers, they were softer and could be broken in easier.

Stage manipulations are different than close-up card tricks.

McBride uses Bee back design for the reason Pete mentions above. McBride tell how to 'break-in' a deck for back palming. It is a personal preference thing. Some like regular cards and some like the Manipulation cards by Norm Nielsen. These are bridge size and thinner so you can back palm more cards than with a regualar poker deck. They do not require the long break-in treatment that regular cards require.

You will also need fanning powder to make the cards fan evenly in all weather. And you will need the card press that Nielsen sells.

http://www.nnmagic.com

I learned form the McBride tapes using bicycles. They are very stiff, but it was a good way to learn. After that I purchased a Norm Neilsen deck. I hated it. The cards do not have much spring to them, and I find I have reduced control because of it. All of those manipulations I learned needed to be tweaked to be done with the Neilsen cards. Plus I found that spectators appreciate it more when you use cards that are standard in every way.

Finally I have decided upon Bee cards. These seem to keep their shape longer and have a little more flex that bikes. Bee cards are also nice because they don't have white borders. McBride uses bee cards in his videos. To my knowledge his stage cards are just standard bee cards with a custom backing

Moral of the story is try standard Bee cards and don't waste money on Norm Neilsen cards. But do get a card press.

I also use bicycles myself and just have learned to break them in well before using. The biggest key is that too many beginners do not break in the cards well enough or in the proper way. This only leads to frsutration and giving up.

The best advice I can offer to you is to try different cards, break them in according the the method on the McBride tapes, and just give them a try.

Every manipulator finds what cards work best for them and their own hands and performance style.

Kyle

The cards that all the big manipulators use, may not be suitable for you. I learned this early on. I was using the Bicycle and Bee brands for awhile, but I don't like to use them anymore. For awhile, everywhere I saw a new deck, I would purchase it. I tested many many decks and I finally found a deck suitable for me. I now buy my cards from the Dollar Tree Stores. They make a great card for manipulation. You get 2 decks of cards for $1.00 You get 1 blue and 1 red deck, both without borders. I love them. They are great and don't need a lot of fanning powder. Also, I learned that once you find a deck that suits yourself, buy a lot of that deck when you see it. The producers may not sell the deck you like for a long time or just might switch brands. So its safe to stock up on a few decks when you find the right one. I just took a $20 dollar bill and bought 40 decks from the dollar tree. I use the blue cards to practice with, and save the red backs for future performances.

Again, you may need to just test many different types of decks to suit yourself. There are many magic shops that sell special cards that are very thin. You may want to try and look at these as well. Good luck!

http://www.dollartree.com -find the closest store near you and test out their cards!

-Thad

I don't work with assistants. Would it be ok to bring in a girl to do a role in the show? I mean, I could do that if possible. What do you think?

Yanyak5,

Sure, why not. If she is nice, attractive, presents a good image, go ahead.

I would use some of my girlfriends in a show. They did not know what to do. So they stood a little behind me and watched. I would hand her some things and she put them down on the table.

And an attractive woman is also great misdirection!

I use Bees for split fan production and for practice for single card productions. In performance I use Bees for split fans and Norm Nielson manipulation cards for singles. I do use the Bees also for snap productions. I have Murray, Peter Marvey, and Julianna Chen manipulation cards, but I really like the Norm Nielson cards.

I suggest you use the Bees for practice because they are stiffer and will bulld up the muscles in your fingers and hands.

I like the Jeff McBride manipulation cards. I also have the NN manipulation cards which are all right, but are a lot smaller and very flimsy.

Take care, Bry

I use Murry's manipulation cards together with Japanese manipulation cards that have a faning deck back.

One word: Norm Nielsen.

I use cards called "Magician's Card by Million Card." These are marvelous cards from Japan and you can buy them at http://www.ugm.co.jp/.

Lol...I accidentally posted the assistant thingy in the wrong section! Forgive me!

Another nice thing about NN cards is that the indices are in all 4 corners, making fans symmetrical in left or right hands. I believe most European cards have the indices in all 4 corners.
Lou

Hello All,

As the 2nd only student of the "world's foremost card manipulator," Jeff Sheridan, his only other being McBride, I feel I am in a position to clear up a few issues. Both JS and I have dinner a number of times a month and I consider him a good friend after knowing him some 16 years.

I also have over 70 hours JUST of various individuals doing card manipulation: the likes of Cardini, Pollock, Foster, Hart, amoung others, and I can state that without a doubt.

My friend and teacher IS the BEST OF OUR TIME...period.

Both he (JS and myself) constantly curse the quality, or should I say LACK THEREOF of the cards on the market today.

To anyone reading this--yes, you should break your cards in, within reason... The problem is that because of the poor quality of the cards today they are already breaking down by the time you have somewhat broken them in.

N. Neilson has decent cards but again they are only produced (pun intended) in a bridge size, which is much too small for either JS or myself, but may work for someone reading this.

Bees seem to work well IF you are able to locate a pack to has not been lacqured to death!
The "Magicians Cards" out of Japan as mentioned in an earlier post ARE NOT manipulation cards...they are an exhibition fanning deck.

Forget fanning powder; today's cards are ALREADY too slippery, as your job is to try to create large, even fans that look consistent each and every time one is produced.

Next, while a videotape is a good tool to use to tighten up various moments of your work, the Ganson book is a very good thing to have in your library if you're interested in card manip.... Both JS and myself were first interested in manip through "Howard Thurston Card Tricks."

Jeff & myself feel that to be a decent/good card manipulator, one has to put in a minimum of 8 years at it, 10 -15 to be great...But then again picking up a pack of cards once a week for 15 years will NOT do it either. Total Commitment!

YES, EVEN before putting it out there in front of an audience!!
You have to commit to "putting in the work." Not a day goes by that JS or I don't take out a pack of cards and perform some split fanning or some form of card manipulations and WE NEVER PRACTICE the B/F palm in public...NEVER!!

I personally have dedicated my life to becoming one of the best, as I have been doing it now for well, over 17 years, so it's difficult not to become annoyed when we see youngsters at the local magic outlet constantly flipping cards to & fro as though the B/F palm was some sort of a juggling manuever. IT'S NOT!

Magic has had enough exposure to last 50 lifetimes. Use your brain!!
DO your practice sessions at home... in private.

An added note to anyone interested in "the most difficult branch of our Art," Card Manipulation:

Your work MUST not look "strained"; it should be effortless; it should look well ...like Magic.

Personally, I feel that if you cannot commit yourself to putting in the time, again a minimum of at the very least ten years, to do manipulation very well then you are better off not doing it period.

If you're a singer ...then you sing! There is no reason to lipsync! Period.

In closing, let me say that just as paint and brushes DO NOT make you an artist, neither will having a videotape, DVD or book. These are only tools.

You have to put in the work!! True hard work seems to be a rarity these days... Prove me wrong.

If you have any questions please feel free to email me.

"May your splits always be effortless."

Michael Lee

Michael Lee, Jeff Sheirdan may be one of the best instructors out there but his Genius At Work tapes are awful.

Hello All

Well Markis...You are certinaly welcome to your opinion.

Take the time to REREAD my post..

Many "PRO's' go on the boards ill regretably Jeff did these tapes when he was working at about about 50- 75%.

Should he, or should he have not done these DVD'S? That is for the buyer to decide.
Personally I think they are truly the work of an Artist.

You MUST understand that not only are you watching a great artist...but you are also looking at a human being. A human being whom I have the utmost respect for because I KNOW him, unlike many ever will.

What you are unaware of is that Jeff was ill for some time. I know ...because I looked after him!

Jeff was invited by L&L Productions to do a series of tapes, and as Jeff had not worked for some time it was a smart move for him to do them, and if you are open minded enough and look closly you will indeed see

a... "genius at work."


Jeff Sheridan accepted both McBride and myself as his only students because of our DEDICATION to creating great work and attempting to be original, but also because were willing to put in exhausting hours of hard WORK for our ART.

Personally neither Sheridan, McBride or myself have the time to watch tapes of other magicians.....

We're Working !!!!


He that stands in the circle knows, he that stays on the outside.... grows!

Michael Lee

I do not see anywhere on this string that Jeff Sheridan's name was brought up in any manner. Mr. Lee is also entitled to his beliefs, but to make his beliefs a standard for all that chose to undertake card manipulation is not something that in a free society should even be considered. This is America where we have freedom of choice and learn from our own mistakes.

If his point that only himself, McBride, and Sheridan are permitted to do card manipulations because they 'suffered' through constant dedication to the pastboards, man, get your head out of the clouds.

I have heard of Mr. Sheridan for many years. I purchased his card video and watched in wonder at his ease of handling the cards. He is indeed a true master. I for one am very happy that his work finally came to light. It is a point that everyone now knows what to strive for in their card work.

I have been doing card manipulations for 40 years. A Chavez graduate, studied under Neil Foster as well. I hope this makes me worthy to do card manipulations.

I must disagree; fanning powder helps to slow down a fast deck as much as it helps to fan a sticky deck. Japanese magicians use candle wax or wax used for canning jars. They do, or did, not have fanning powder available in their country; that is why they use this technique.

Hello all, thanks a lot for all your posts. I've got a lot out of them. You're all very experienced and I feel lucky to be here at the Café ..

I've found some thin plastic souvenir cards for the time being; it sure is easier to carry out revealations with those.
It would have been nice to keep the bikes throughout but learnt pretty fast this isn't possible for the big moves, but hey I can still do a pretty neat backpalm and pivot with one bike and a simple vanish effect.

McBride inspired me through his DvD; he seem's to make real real pleasurable magic with those cards. I would like to see him in showtime. Maybe I will get to meet him as I'm off to Vegas next week. I believe he is there at the magic school, but no shows are scheduled.

I'll make my order of Nielsens and Bees as soon as I get back, see how they feel.

Thanx again.

Jason.

I agree with you Bill..."Jeff & myself feel that to be a decent/good card manipulator, one has to put in a minimum of 8 years at it, 10 -15 to be great...But then again picking up a pack of cards once a week for 15 years will NOT do it either. Total Commitment!" is a ridiculous statement. Do you think Lance Burton or Peter Marvey practiced card manipulations for 8 years before doing it in front of a paying audience...and do not do it well? Somehow, I doubt it.

Back to the Jeff Sheridan tape. Not only does Jeff make David Blaine look a dynamic speaker but the tape was falsely represented. I purchased Vol 2 because it said something to the effect of learning how Jeff does his card manipulation surrounded. I thought cool; I'll learn a routine using a perfect productions and the like. Not so. After viewing the tape this was completely false. Same old stuff everyone else does; not that it's bad stuff. I complained to both A1 where I purchased it and L&L. They both offered to refund my money but they did say that this is how Jeff does his card manipulations "surrounded": with his back to a statue in central park. That's like saying Copperfield does his illusion surrounded because there are street drunks in the alley behind the theater.

I declined to return since it was on sale for 15 dollars and not worth the hassel of sending it back and I wouldn't waste a perfectly good blank tape to make a copy.