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FlightRisk
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Firstly, are all these about buying the respective books as opposed to something like Si Stebbings which is pretty much public domain? Secondly, what are the methods to memorize each of them? I already have used for many years the system I got from Harry Lorrayne (1 = T for "Toes", 2 = N for "Noah", 3 = M for "Mom", etc) and his memorizing cards technique, is that what is used to memorize each or do they each come with their own mnemonic teaching devices? Also, any reviews on the Memory Arts Editions? They seem to bypass the conversion process I already have in my head to get from numbers to letters to words and back, but it might be easier still to use their system as it applies to memorizing a specific stack. What are your impressions?
Atom3339
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Mnemonica gives you a whole system of memorizing.
TH

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Cain
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Isn't there a saying, repetition is the mother of memory? Unless you have a confirmed learning disability, my suggestion is to just do it. You'll spend more time sussing out an "efficient" memory system than just brute forcing a stack via flashcards (analysis paralysis).
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
Harry Lorayne
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Great advice...amazing.
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Harry Lorayne
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One of the card items I teach on memory...spectator shuffles the deck, you turn your back and have him remove any five cards and put them in a pocket. You turn back - (s)he calls off the remaining 47 cards pretty rapidly - and you tell him the five cards he removed from the deck. Sure; just repetition will do it for you. Please! I did much stronger IMPROMPTU card memory stunts when I was doing table magic when I was about 19 years old. Doing it for actor Victory Jory changed my life (what I call a pivot point) - I've written about it often enough - don't want to waste time and space here with a REPETITION..
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Harry Lorayne
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Oh, and the opening of my appearances for about the past 70 years (and on just about every major TV show) was/is to remember the names of everyone in the audience ... easy; just repeat the hundreds of names...REPETITION!!! Please.
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FlightRisk
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Well, certainly don't want to re-invent the wheel. I learned the techniques that have helped me so much in life from Harry Lorayne in around around 1976. I had seen Harry do Magic on television and then saw him perform the "trick" of memorizing the names of entire audiences. I saw him a different time bring Jerry Lucas with him and Jerry did the same thing! So I will always thank Harry for popularizing these techniques. The key for me is finding the "easiest" method for me.

When I was a kid I learned the resistor color code (black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green...) by memorizing a sentence in the form of a story. I can't repeat it here, but there is a cleaner version I heard. lol. As it applies to magic, you can do it by "rote" or you can use the standard mnemonics (the T for 1 and the picture is "toes" like I mentioned above) to do just about anything, like memorizing all of the presidents names. But a faster device could be to make a sentence or "song" where the first letter of each word corresponds to the first letter of each name (like the resistor code). But the fastest way of all for me, was a picture with a woman washing a ton of clothes from a wheelbarrow pushed by a woman with a huge adams apple,looking at a guy named Jeff who was her son,etc., etc. (Washington, Adams, Jefferson...) So for a stack, there may be the "best" method for me that is either a "flashcard in my head" using a mnemonic system, or a visual image like the one for the presidents.

I get I can memorize without a device, but then I can easily forget it. I drop things for a while, so being able to come back and have it fresh is important. I still remember the presidents names, phone numbers, even some shopping lists, from 40 years ago! Packet tricks are another. I used to have a great deal of trouble remembering tricks and moves. The only way I could get them was to link mnemonics in my head to the patter. Without it, I could not talk to my spectators and remember all the moves. For a while, I was like Teller, I would mime the effects because I couldn't talk and do the trick at the same time. I could only remember the moves by singing them in my head ("Take a pack count 3 as 4, put them down and grab 6 more. Deal off 3 and drop the rest, then grab an ace and place recessed...) "recessed" is for injogged, 1000 points if anyone guesses the packet trick from that little bit-ty of ditty. Smile

Thanks for the help and advice. I'll see what the differences are between Mnemonica and Redford and see if it may be worth memorizing both or learning the hands from one and memorizing the one I may use the most.
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To be honest, I just learned 5 cards everyday by memory and had the stack memorized securely in two weeks. Don’t make too big a deal out of it. But I can recommend the Memory Arts book
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Harry Lorayne
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Have you read HOW TO DEVELOP A SUPER-POWER MEMORY or THE MEMROY BOOK or AGELESS MEMORY?
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magicfish
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Quote:
On Jan 17, 2019, FlightRisk wrote:
Firstly, are all these about buying the respective books as opposed to something like Si Stebbings which is pretty much public domain? Secondly, what are the methods to memorize each of them? I already have used for many years the system I got from Harry Lorrayne (1 = T for "Toes", 2 = N for "Noah", 3 = M for "Mom", etc) and his memorizing cards technique, is that what is used to memorize each or do they each come with their own mnemonic teaching devices? Also, any reviews on the Memory Arts Editions? They seem to bypass the conversion process I already have in my head to get from numbers to letters to words and back, but it might be easier still to use their system as it applies to memorizing a specific stack. What are your impressions?

1= T for Toes is not correct.
"Toes" would be 10, As would "Does" "Dice" "Daze" etc. All of which add to creativity, flexibility, versatility, in the images.
These concepts are explained clearly in Harry's memory books. Sure the peg system can be found in several places, but it is how Harry teaches us to USE it that has changed so many lives around the world- including my own.
FlightRisk
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Hmmmm. I will dig out the book and re-read. I also had cassette tapes back in the day and may be confusing different resources, but T = Toes and is 1 because a "T" has 1 downstroke when you write it in print it. "N" is 2 because it has 2 downstrokes (or 2 humps in cursive), M is 3 (3 humps). That is how I have used it for decades. It works for me Smile I will look and see how that is applied.

Harry I do have a 1976 copy of "The Memory Book". Going to get it off the shelf and re-read. And I have your "Ageless Memory" from more recently. I will look into the other you mentioned. Thank you. I of course have several of your books on Magic Smile
Bobby Forbes
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Mnemonics are the way to go in my opinion but with that being said, rote memory can be just as effective in some cases and permanent as well. Tamariz method does not rely on mnemonics but it will stick in your head. Just look at everything you have learned in your life by using just plain ol brute Force repetition ie:spelling words, multiplication, addition problems etc, the alphabet, days of the week, months of the year. I'd bet 99 percent of humans learned those things in grade school by just repetition. And guess what, 60 years later you will still remember it. No mnemonics we're needed. Hell, I learned the states in alphabetical order along with their capitals by learning a song. Just singing the song every morning with the teacher engraved it in my head.
Bobby Forbes
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Quite obviously rote memory will do no good trying to remember stuff on the spot and Impromptu as in some of your demonstrations. . I was saying that rote memory DOES have a place when it comes to remembering stuff whether you want to believe it or not.
Harry Lorayne
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Repetition is NEVER, not in ANY case, better than applying my "re-invented" systems. NEVER. Rote memory CAN NEVER have a place when it comes to remembering
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Cain
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Quote:
On Jan 23, 2019, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Rote memory CAN NEVER have a place when it comes to remembering


Sounds reasonable. I'm using mnemonics to build up my muscle-memory.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
Bobby Forbes
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If rote memory works for little children in school (ie: remembering 26 random letters in a row) then it will work for adults. There is no arguing this point.
RickDangerous
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Thank you Bobby! How ridicolous, of course rote memory works reliably. Just ask some of the top memdeck practitioners. I use the stack under pressure in my performances and I know it inside out. It becomes second nature. And if I‘m able to do it, anyone can. It didn‘t take that long. So many never learn a stack because first they want to find the best memory system, then they need to learn it, then apply it to the stack...
On the other hand, if you learn a system you‘ll have a tool for life of course. But it‘s not needed for a deck of cards.
"Reality is what you can get away with."
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FlightRisk
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I get what you guys are saying, and certainly it is possible, that's not the issue. The issue is how quickly, how permanent, how much pain is involved, and what you are trying to remember. You sort of made Harry's point for him. You forget that it takes quite a long time to teach a child the alphabet... AND we still use mnemonics! We all learned from singing a rhyming song with a tune and cadence ("...now I said my ABC's, tell me what you think of me), so yes, I think there we COULD argue the point Smile But to Bobby, I know you are taking both sides and already agreed that mnemonics have their place. You just want to say there is a place for rote too. So I get you.

I just spent an hour on a new system with a new stack and memorized half the deck in about an hour (and half of that was reading the text to learn the system). Never did MD work other than Si Stebbins, and then rarely. I did all the clubs and diamonds and know all their positions, so value/suit to position and position to value/suit (along with images for each card not related to their faces). This will help me do some effects because I can make a story or ABC type song to remember the moves, not just the cards. I really have trouble with rote memory. I have no idea how long it would have taken me to memorize all that, but I probably would have started on it and just quit.

I do admire you guys's memories and tenacity and appreciate your advice. I imagine once again, it comes down to what works for each of us. I know we have different learning types; kinesthetic, auditory, visual, etc., but I think these memory systems cut through all that and either work for EVERYONE, or can be adjusted to rely on one facet of the tools more than another, for example picture images vs. the saying the "trigger". You picture a King, but the trigger might be "the king has no clothes". Some people picture a naked king, other people hear the words like a story in their head. It is amazing stuff. I love science, so learning more about how we remember things fascinates me too. Smile
Bobby Forbes
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Great points. And like I said, mnemonics are the way to go, but you can't discount rote memory and say it NEVER has a place. That's just a ridiculous statement.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Jan 24, 2019, Bobby Forbes wrote:
Great points. And like I said, mnemonics are the way to go, but you can't discount rote memory and say it NEVER has a place. That's just a ridiculous statement.

Keep in mind, Harry Lorayne made his living and a darn good one) his entire life performing memory feats and writing about them.
The things Harry can do simply cannot be done with rote memory. So as he says, there is no place for it. And if you want to be able to do what he can do, rote memory will prevent your success.
So perhaps it isn't a ridiculous statement as you say.
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