Since it seems that most members here are only intersted in stealing Derren Brown's work the name of this forum should be changed to Derren for your thoughts...

Hmmm, he doesn't even get the 10p he charges for making mind readers on the street in his show, or even the penny promised in the forum name.

You shouldn't be able to just log on, read a few threads, then have a good idea of how he did the tractor one. Yes you should learn from others and all that, but right now there is too much exposure of Derren's work. Perhaps baby magician is being a little dramatic, but there really should be something done about it.

Just my 2 cents, which should probably be sent to the man himself.

Dear Derrens,

I derren there is far too much derren about derren at the moment.

It derrens that every other thread is about derren and how derren does derrens.

And only for 10 derrens.

Personally, I can't derren until next Friday so I can derren about how derren does the aforementioned derrens.

All the best,
Derren

Well it should be up to the mods to start removing anything that is slightly incrimintating to the art of mentalism or Derren's work.

There does seem to be a (slightly unhealthy) Derren obsession at the moment, a Derren forum may indeed be the answer.

In regards to the Derren principles...

As a performer living outside the UK I don't get to see any of the Derren TV shows. Which sucks for two reasons: 1) I hear they are great and; 2) I get sick of everyone telling everyone else how great they are. Jealous? YES a bit. Is there any way to see any of his shows?

Shaun

Heaven forbid you suggest in a post where someone asks how Derren does something, that it might not be the nicest course of action for them to take. You will be attacked for being unwilling to help magicians and stifling all creativity in the world of magic. Sadly, most magicians it seems only want to know how someone else's tricks are done. The idea of finding one's own material is apparently passe.

I'm glad there are some other people on the Café who see this for what it is.

Very exciting post...NOT! Lets be honest, Derren is regarded by most as the world's best mentalist, so I disagree about unhealthy obsessions. As far as stealing Derren's work, I don't think so as the posts I have read ask for suggestions, ideas, etc. not 'how does he do this'.

As for the large number of magicians/mentalists on this Café slagging off Derren's latest specials—who are you, where are your T.V specials and highly praised stage show and books? If people stopped moaning about Derren, etc. and got on with being better mentalists then maybe you could do what Derren has done and get loads of people unfairly moaning at you!!!

Bigdunk, as long as people are trying to replicate Derren's work, they can be sure they never will be getting their own special. Derren is great. No one disputes that. It's a shame that magicians refuse to think for themselves. Well, Derren did. That's why he's successful.

Every kid on the Café asking for "guidance to his sources" which means "I'm willing to look up the answer if someone will tell me where it is", is riding on coattails.

Derren Brown is a terrific performer.

He has become, also, a marketing category: “If Derren does it, it’s cool. Lets do it too!”

A more interesting question, instead of how Derren Brown does an effect, will be how do YOU do it?

That's easy—exactly how Derren does.

Although (as a general rule) I'm not against the discussion of effects as sort of brainstorming sessions that get the ol' grey cells buzzing, but I do think that there's far too many posts on Derren in here—it's a wee bit unhealthy methinks.

Well, let's consider this, if someone saw an ad for a marketed effect and then came here to ask, "How does this work?" they would be told that it wasn't the right thing to do. Searching for secrets is not something the Café exists for, as per Steve's guidelines. But if someone comes here and asks, "How does Derren do this?" it becomes OK for us to tell them sources and begin speculating. We wouldn't do that for a marketed trick, but we will for someone's act.

Does that seem fair to you?

Seems that we are willing to protect a secret, but not a man's secrets.

(And, I agree, thinking about a trick is a good thing, but the good comes from the thought and personal exploration, not from having answers handed to you online.)

Thoughts?

Great point, Enrique. To me, that's the real value of watching someone like Derren. As an example, some time ago I developed an ESP card matching routine that was "inspired" by Derren's version, even though I had never seen his routine (and still haven't). I just kept hearing magii talk about how much cleaner and more inexplicable his version was than any of the published/marketed versions. So with that as my goal, I set about developing my own routine that would be that clean and un-backtrackable. And eventually, after a lot of thought and work, I got it; I now have what I believe is the best ESP card matching routine imaginable, for me. I still have no idea how Derren does his, and I don't particularly care to know. But aspiring to his level of excellence definitely improved my thinking and my creative process.

Besides, I get the feeling that in about a day and a half, all these Derren threads are going to be supplanted by Gerry threads.

Quinn

I am pretty new here and so I don't know if my opinion matters as much as others but here is my observation on Derren Brown. I became interested in magic again a little over a year ago because of another DB and his specials, only to join into the internet world of magic to hear how he was killing magic by all the newcomers and it being a fad. I am very much interested in mentalism and learning it and not just copying it. Fortunately, I got some really good advice from Neil Tobin and David Whitehead on another forum pointing me to references and I have been studying.

So I guess my point is (I have two) is that one this fascination with Derren Brown will pass and two, instead of getting mad at a new person to mentalism asking where or how then point them to the classics of mentalism so they can learn like all of you had to do. These people need guidance and they may just not know how to ask for it. So I am glad I was pointed to 13 Steps, Practical Mental Magic and Fulves' Self Working Mental Magic to begin and see if I like what is in store for me. I do like this art and I can tell you that a lot of these people that are interested now won't be in a couple of months when they find out the investments they will have to make. Sorry for the long post.

Wade

Wade,

The sad thing is, that many are happy to point them to classics, but you would be surprised how "upset" the posters become when they are told to pursue that route, rather than the world on instant gratification. You may be an exception. And because of that, your work in this world will progress much further, much faster than those of which we speak.

I understand, and it is unfortunate because they will miss out on some very interesting reading and ideas. I guess that it doesn't help that the world is turning into instant grafification as well with instant download magic "tricks" and DVDs where the person doesn't have to read and come up with patter because they are just watching the performer and just "do as I do" instructions. I know that is an entire other topic so I will stop now. Thank you for the encouragement and look forward to becoming more involved here.

OK, a few thoughts...

It is of course, unethical to try to strip away a perfromer's material and monkey their performance—but that's not what I was referring to. Watching any performer can (and always will) give you inspiration and in forums such as this, it can allow users to brainstorm ideas that have been generated from that performance.

However, if I want to produce an effect similar to the coin in hand routine because I saw Derren perform it, who is going to say I can't? Nobody, because it's entirely up to me. It will make me completely unoriginal, sure, but that would be my decision to make (this is for arguments sake if course).

The fact of the matter is, that as long as people like Derren are popular, other people will want to be like him.

And no one says that it is illegal for you to do so. Only artistically and ethically bankrupt.

And therein lies the problem truthteller, ethics are so subjective and we can argue until we are blue in the face, and people will have their own (and valid in their own minds) opinions. Whether or not I think its ethical or not is relevant only to me.

Personally, I think anyone who wishes to mimic and copy any performer is just selling themselves short really, but I know that it doesn't matter what I (or anyone) says on the matter, it will still happen.

Jack Black / John Candy anyone?

But to get back on the off topic - it was the mighty Paul Daniels who got me into magic, but I unashamedly say Derren Brown got me into mentalism.

I think the problem is that (as has already been posted), people watching the TV specials associate a quick routine with an easy routine.

The croupier / poker line from MindControl springs to mind. I think a lot of people just want to know what the magic words were that DB said to make them chose the card. Why? To impress their mates down the pub

The whisk stunt was longer, and more convoluted, so it must be harder, so not worth the effort mastering.

Maybe the irony is both these effects start at the same points - Corrinda and Banachek. Read and digest