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Philemon Vanderbeck
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Si non est, erit aliquis.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
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Senor Fabuloso
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Not anywhere near my house Smile Or should I just say, not me?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

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Max Hazy
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I don't think anybody is entitled to say how people should spend their money. For instance, I don't think people should spend their money smoking... they're wasting their money and wasting their health... yet I'm don't go out saying they're wrong and I'm right... it's THEIR money and they're entitled to spend it as they see fit. Is there a documentary against readings? I lost how many campaigns against smoke there is... hell, even in the box there are warnings and yet people go for it. The same goes for readings... if people find readings something useful/helpful/good for whatever reasons, it's their decisions after all and it's their money after all.

That being said... I do think readings can be VERY positive in many many aspects (I'm talking about "pure" readings). The reader must be cautious to not alienate people, that's the biggest concern. Now, mixing it with secret methods to secretly get information to boost the believebility might be questionable depending on how the performer go about it.

Lastly... the world doesn't want to be fooled? Really? Then I must be living in a completely different world... I see people paying to see things that "fools" all the time, mostly for entertainment. Movies (you know they're actors and special effects, right?), Wrestling, Magic, Theather, Stand Up comedy... and the list goes. Even social midia is packed with fooling stuff just for the sake of entertainment. No... what I see when I look around is exactly the opposite... the world is so filled with nasty things that the world itself is paying to be fooled.

Btw... I'm just stating a point of view... please, read between the lines what I said here... don't take everything literally because I think it would end in a pointless discussion. In the end, nobody is entitled to say how people should spend their money... it's their money after all (what I said about not alienating people should be taken in consideration, sure!).
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
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Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
Senor Fabuloso
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It may not be freethinking to SUGGEST how people spend their money but governments have decided to protect the people from fraudsters and conmen. Is that fascism? Maybe but for the good of the people, may be a necessary evil?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

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Max Hazy
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On Mar 23, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
It may not be freethinking to SUGGEST how people spend their money but governments have decided to protect the people from fraudsters and conmen. Is that fascism? Maybe but for the good of the people, may be a necessary evil?


I'm not sure about the suggestion part... because it's subjective. Government is also subjective... there are country's that allows man to spank woman... there are countrys where marriage with underaged is allowed... hell, there are countries where even child prostitution is allowed for God's sake... just because government allows or forbids it doesn't mean government is making the right decision nor that the action itself is right or wrong. I could go on with even worse examples but I don't want to derail the topic. The point is that it will be hard to make solid arguments with subjective "facts", you see. The bottom line is much deeper than that. Personally, I do have problems with how some things are handled regarding readings, there are things regarding readings that I'm 100% against... but on the other hand, I've seem enough first hand to be on the side of the readings myself. If I were to take a pick on one side... I do favor the practice of readings (done properly!).
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman

"Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward"
Jan Forster


Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
Philemon Vanderbeck
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Not only do people want to be fooled, they do so because they want to experience the sensation of awe.

There's a great story regarding awe (and a study regarding it) that recently appeared on the "Quirks and Quarks" podcast: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/mar-9-20.......5047156
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ringmaster
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Awe shucks.
Less than 2% of reported UFO's turn out to be actual interplanetary vehicles.
Sudo Nimh
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A point of clarification: The phrase "Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" has nothing to do with those who practice the art of theatrical Magic. It has been borrowed by some performance Magicians simply because it sounds "cool" and "mystical" and because they are woefully ignorant to it's true meaning.

The phrase actually comes to us from Occult practices and has a far more sinister - yet truthful and useful meaning, which is related to natural human tendency. It simply means that people would rather believe a convenient lie than face a horrible truth. As an example, Adolph Hitler bombed his own Reichstag parliament building on February 27, 1933. He then used the event to declare his political opponents on the left as "terrorists" which allowed the nazi party to be able to declare a state of national emergency. This granted the nazi party new powers which they then used to slowly strip away the liberty and freedoms of the German people under the pretenses of "national security" which eventually led to Hitler abolishing the government and declaring himself Supreme Chancellor of Germany. It also united the German people as a whole against a supposed "common enemy". This isn't to say that all Germans believed the terrible lie, but the masses did, and once that happened, it was too late to protest because you would then be deemed a traitor of the state.

Despite empirical evidence that the nazi party was behind the bombing, the German people were desperate for a means to end the country's economic woes and so it was far easier for them to accept the lie than to face the horrible truth. Hitler simply preyed upon the animal instincts of humanity to achieve what he desired. He is quoted as telling his propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels "Make the lie big. Keep repeating it, and the people will believe it." He had even written about this very idea before the bombing in his book Mein Kampf where he wrote:

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.


The "Great Lie" is a tool used by Occultists that operates in harmony with "The Great Work". In genuine Occult practice, "Magick" is defined as "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will", which includes both "mundane" acts of will (such as lying) as well as ritual magic.

Long story short, I would advise against using the phrase unless one is actually associated with genuine Occult practices and doesn't mind being known as one who would do anything to achieve one's goals.

Now...about 9/11....
Sudo Nimh
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The morality issue of readings can also easily be boiled down to another Occult teaching, and perhaps the greatest of them all: "Know thyself". It is a cardinal faux-pas within the Occult to have to question one's own motives because it means that one has either been fooled by self-deception or doesn't yet "know thyself". One should not be engaging in this sort of thing without acquiring this knowledge of "self" first. The same thing applies to readings. Understanding who you are and why you're interested in doing this is the key. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer.

The human mind likes to compartmentalize things into nice neat boxes. It does this by labeling things as "good or "evil", "pleasurable" or "unpleasant" etc. The truth is, that all of these things are opposite sides of the same coin and are entirely subjective. Perhaps you're not into bondage and being whipped. Another may find that to be pleasurable. The actual act itself is neither "pleasurable" or "unpleasurable". This is known as The Law of Polarity which teaches that all things that exist must have it's opposite. There is no day without night, truth without lies, etc. Each must exist in order for the other to also exist. How one chooses to live their life is their own choice and determined by their own knowledge of self or lack thereof. If another's choices are deemed to be awful or abhorrent to one's self, it is simply because that person has chosen to live in a manner which is in mirror opposition to your own sensibilities. In other words, backwards. They are living backwards, or contrary, to your own beliefs. LIVE, backwards, is EVIL. But does that make it so? No. Again, they are polar opposites and one cannot exist without the other. They are both essential. Look closely at the Universe and the Earth around you. There are always cycles of seemingly careless destruction without reason. Nature has a wanton lust for destroying life sometimes. That is the way of things. Only silly humans view it as "good" or "evil" because humans have reached a point where they are desperately trying to reject and deny the fact that they are, in reality, just animals and also a part of Nature and the Universe itself. They believe that they are "better" and "superior" to animals. Thus the "need" for the modern human to want to shave off natural body hair and so on and so forth, and why species are becoming extinct at an unprecedented rate and the Earth is being destroyed, but I digress...because again, if that's what is occurring, then it's all a part of the adventure, isn't it?

Knowledge of "self" is really the key to all of this. There is no "right" or "wrong". "Do as though whilt shall be the whole of the law."
IAIN
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The funny thing about the book of the law is, is that it states that nothing shall be written down and to learn/teach the 'wisdom' of the book of the law it shall be passed onto others orally...

You can buy it on amazon... Less than a fiver... And that decision was made by the golden dawn themselves...

And I feel people readily accept the legend of cowley, rather than examine his reality at the time and just see him as he truly was... A messed up opportunist who had a couple of great talents.. But there's nothing occult about him...
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Sudo Nimh
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Except you're missing the fact that Crowley himself didn't actually derive these on his own. These teachings were around long before he ever appeared on the planet. All he did was repackage them. And as for the Golden Dawn...pfft. This was all just part of his way of sucking fools into following him and worshiping the ground he walked on. You do realize he was simply just having a good laugh at their expense, don't you? They forgot the "golden" rules: "Know thyself" and "To one's own self be true". However, no matter what one's opinion is about the man, the fact cannot be disputed that he was absolutely brilliant and possessed an extremely high IQ.

Fact is, Crowley's own personal interests in the Occult (outside of the organizations he created) went back to its ancient roots with Enochian and Solomonic Goetic Magick. All humans are opportunistic by nature - just as animals are. Some just try to hide it. Others preach moral righteousness and piety when it is all just hypocritical and a facade. To suggest that there was nothing "Occult" about Crowley would also be wrong. Maybe try reading all of his works on the subject and not just the common ones (like The Book of the Law) that people with only a passing knowledge of the man have read. He wrote a ton of material. I'm not necessarily a "Crowley-ite", but the mark he left on the world of the Occult is undeniable. Crowley would laugh at anyone who followed his path, and that was the biggest lesson of all to be learned - which most missed and continue to do so.
Sudo Nimh
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Incidentally...

Crowley was born October 12, 1875. I was born October 11, 1974. One century later, I was born exactly one day and one year less. He died in '47. I was born in '74. There's a ton of numerological ties and synchronicities here, but I won't bother getting into those complexities.

Reincarnation, perhaps? Smile
Sudo Nimh
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There is a 27 year difference between his death and my birth. The number 27 in Occultism has massive significance. Not trying to suggest anything, I just find the sheer number of numerological ties between us to be absolutely staggering and fascinating. He and I also share an intense love and proficiency in the game of Chess as well...

Just one more thing in a long list of strange synchronicities.
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On Mar 23, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
It may not be freethinking to SUGGEST how people spend their money but governments have decided to protect the people from fraudsters and conmen. Is that fascism? Maybe but for the good of the people, may be a necessary evil?



If that's the point , then in goverment's opinion people are so stupid, so they have to be protected, even if they don't want to... . I'm ok if someone want's to criticise something, but I'm against in legaly enforcin people how to think. What about freedom ? My freedom ends where your freedom begins. If you wan't do something which will do no harm to other people ( for example go for a tarrot reading) goverment can not prohibit it to you . That's the point. In law there is old latin sentence "Volenti non fit iniuria".
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On Mar 28, 2019, MindO wrote:
If that's the point , then in goverment's opinion people are so stupid, so they have to be protected, even if they don't want to... . I'm ok if someone want's to criticise something, but I'm against in legaly enforcin people how to think. What about freedom ? My freedom ends where your freedom begins. If you wan't do something which will do no harm to other people ( for example go for a tarrot reading) goverment can not prohibit it to you . That's the point. In law there is old latin sentence "Volenti non fit iniuria".


I couldn't agree more. Governments are simply nothing more than a legalized gang whose main industry is the "protection" racket. It would do well for people to remember that the 'police' started off as the goons who would show up at your thatch hut to extort money from you that you owed to the "King" for no other reason than because "he said so" and because you lived on "his" land - land which was originally taken by force and paid for by the blood of the common man. Their powers have been greatly amplified over time. Let's also not forget that the Royalty's main concern was in expanding their powers and territory. The more land one conquered, the more power and money was gained in return. None of it was ever in favour of the actual people they ruled over. It was all simply a game of whomever had the biggest goon squad wins - or at least, typically "wins". Nowadays, it is less about territory and more about resources. A Government needs no longer to conquer another's land - or it's problems, as long as they've gotten access to it's resources. They do it through finances. When that country rebels or decides not to comply... a bunch of propaganda is cooked up and, well, I think we've all seen what happens. (Remember Saddam's infamous "weapons'a mass destruction?") Never did find them, did they?

At this stage in the game, they have overstepped their boundaries by too wide of a margin. It has gotten to the point where every tiny little thing in life is now governed over. There is absolutely no way a man should be jailed for catching a few fish in a river to eat without a license. That is a God-given right to all who live on this earth as a means to survive. Same with these draconian laws they have in some parts where people aren't allowed to catch and use rain water on their own land. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Enough is enough.
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Hello Friends,

I'm not really interested in arguments, especially the one of this thread. But I do care about proper quotations, citations and bibliographic details. I tried sending a quick note to my esteemed colleague Sudo to privately alert him of a discrepancy in one of his comments, but his mailbox is full. Since that didn't work, I hope he won't mind if I publicly fix something he misquoted here.

The dictum should be: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Every word matters, and in this case changing "as" for "what" truly subverts the intended meaning. Anyway, the book from which Sudo quotes says, "Change not as much as the style of a letter...," so I guess we better leave complete words alone!

Aleister has been one of my closest friends for well over half a century now, so I wanted to set the record straight on this rather important imperative of his. Should anyone require further clarification, I've actually written eleven freely available essays on this axiom (no advertising, no strings attached, merely a labor of love): https://osculating-words.blogspot.com/2018/07/blog-post.html

And while still in librarian mode, may I be permitted to address Iain as well? The Golden Dawn had nothing to do with Liber Legis, or Book of the Law. Crowley's preliminary couple of years with that group were well before the days of Book of the Law, which draws more from Rabelais and Sade than Hermes Trismegistus. However, you are certainly correct (I think) in your assessment of his foul character. But as I've written in my essays, cited above, don't mistake the message with the messenger.

One final thing. Reincarnation? In my fifty years of studying the Great Beast and encountering others of a similar persuasion in both the U.S. and the U.K., I've met some thirteen or fourteen people who have claimed to be Aleister's astral seed. Don't lump me with the Amazing Randi, but I'm not totally convinced yet. For that matter, my brother (now deceased) was born on the day Crowley died (about an hour after the fact as I recall). Brother Bill did a pretty good job of emulating the old rapscallion, but truly I think the second coming is still just a few years ahead of us yet.

Thomas Henry
Omne ignotum pro magnifico.
IAIN
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Quote:
On Mar 28, 2019, Thomas Henry wrote:
And while still in librarian mode, may I be permitted to address Iain as well? The Golden Dawn had nothing to do with Liber Legis, or Book of the Law. Crowley's preliminary couple of years with that group were well before the days of Book of the Law, which draws more from Rabelais and Sade than Hermes Trismegistus. However, you are certainly correct (I think) in your assessment of his foul character. But as I've written in my essays, cited above, don't mistake the message with the messenger.


cheers for the correction!

i thought they ended up with the rights to the book of the law and then sold it publicly...but no!


crowley (pronounced like holy) was a very interesting man, but also a huge narcissist and opportunist (amongst other things)...if I remember rightly, he also had quite a disruptive childhood too (could be wrong)... but equally, his true talents could have been put to better use I reckon...being able to manipulate and so on, he'd have been an excellent mentalist - and in a way, he was...just that his payments were a bit more long term and to sate certain vices...i wonder if he lived in a time where his sexuality wasn't illegal, whether he'd have been another person and not felt compelled to go the so-called "occult" way...

side note - depending on what century you look at, things that get labelled as occult change...so the experience of those things are certainly influenced by social and economic view points of its time...
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Sudo Nimh
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Hi Thomas.

Yes, you're correct. As I wrote that post in the wee hours of the morning, I misplaced "what" with "as". My bad.

As for the 'reincarnation' bit, you do realize that was purely in jest, no? The man was indeed of foul character, but that means nothing whatsoever to me. I welcome such things. It is far more interesting than the boring and mundane - none of which, are terms one would use to describe the man.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you've written. Thanks for sharing.
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Connected in a few ways, Graham bond did some albums based around magick, King Arthur and cowley influenced stuff... He was also one of the very first UK jazz and rythmn and blues guys... The mighty shadow is an interesting book about him...

Have a listen...
https://youtu.be/MLTl2Fuf6iY
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Sudo Nimh
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Well, that was cool Iain. Had no idea such a thing existed and never heard of this artist before. It's definitely "old-school cool". Thanks.
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